Guys, I'm not forcing you to believe in these "heretical" gnostic gospels. I was just trying to explain the points with reference to science, logic & buddhistic scriptures.
I like the gnostic texts as far as they go when improving on the human experience... but their cosmology is like putting a square peg in a round hole and is based on ignorance and misunderstanding.
i'm not going to explain any further. it's a matter of CHOICE whether you choose to believe in whatever things (facts or lies / hallucination) you want to believe.
do not try to disprove GOD based on simple concepts of what HE is. I think we all would agree HE isn't those.
... WE can not 'understand' infinity ... BUT, WE can FeeL IT = sensations, withOUT judgMEnt !! -))… non judgment, is ‘fEElINg’ the AS IT IS, and withIN …
(=the K-IN-G-DO-M of Hea-veN), the experiential understanding “EVERYTHING” is made of INFINITE LOVE/LIGHT/CALM-PASSION !! -)) … please, do not BElieVE me, sit and ‘fEEl IT’ ! -))))))))
ok, goodnite guys! nice discussion we have here... but it's my bedtime already... it's ok we can all stick to our own beliefs without having our heads cut-off or burnt at the stake here on the internet. May all beings be liberated, anyway... 8)
I find the Gospel of Thomas, for example, to be perhaps the best distillation of Jesus’ Teachings I’ve ever read.
But with your apparent hatred and anger over the subject matter of creation, I don’t see you able to learn anything more here until these poisonous emotions are unclouded from your Vision.
If you have such anger for the theistic, creationist theology of the Kolbrin, why are you here?
Well don't Gnostics believe in God only that they believe the first creation of God was hijacked by the Demiurge who created another corrupted realm within the main creation?
That's where they lose me
Haha its very matrix like
Yes, it is quite Matrix like…and one could compare the Gnostic Demiurge with The Architect in the Matrix Trilogy. However, in Gnosticism, there is an all powerful Creator God that is above the Demiurge and his abortive creation we know as the phenomenal, temporal universe. Underneath this all powerful Theistic Creator God there is a whole smattering of demigods, angels, demons, and elemental powers with various ranking, power, and responsibility.
(Interesting note: Who created the Architect [Demiurge] in the Matrix series? Answer: Humans did.)
This cosmology, while different in technical specifics and storyline, is similar to mainstream Judeo Christian cosmology in that Satan is given the power by God to rule over the Earth for a time. This line of thought is most apparent in the story of Job and Satan’s tempting of Jesus in offering him power over the Earth.
Gnosticism accuses (rightfully so) the Old Testament Jewish God as being the usurper Demiurge, and it is clear that the God of Moses differs fundamentally with the God of Jesus. But it is not the entire Old Testament that the Gnostics take issue with. There are many Kings, Prophets, Holy Men, and Law Givers…and they are not uniformly serving the same Master. It only appears so on the surface, and the more knowledgeable Adepts of Jewish Kabbalism understand the actual distinction and intricacies here, but will not share this knowledge with the uninitiated.
There are reasons the Demiurge (or Satan [Principal of Evil]) is allowed to flourish in the world that I shall not get into presently. It should be enough at present to realize that it is us as humans that CHOOSE to embrace evil and suffering while dishing it out to themselves and their fellow men. In other words, WE ASKED FOR IT!
As I have stated elsewhere, however, the Gnostic mistake was blame ANOTHER, or all material creation, for their own problematic state of being. Hating the Demiurge, or material creation in general, is not the state of mind that allows one to transcend this Evil, and in fact, actually binds one more closely to it.
The Demiurge doesn't work for me.... Sounds more like trying to fix what they could not comprehend.
Or rather HATE what they could not comprehend…
The problem of the Demiurge was never solved or ‘fixed’ by a single Gnostic adherent, and therefore Gnosticism is only able to go so far in its understanding of spirituality…
Old Testament God is GOD, but generationally misunderstood by the scribes who set down the stories of Moses on paper. Then that misunderstanding of the nature of GOD was explained by this bizarre cosmology that almost rings of antisemitism.
Most of the original Gnostics were disaffected Jews…and were about as anti-Semitic as Jesus was in his condemnation of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
That being said, the New Testament God did not call himself a ‘jealous God’ or require you sacrifice your son (Abraham to Isaac), demand other animal sacrifices, demand a death sentence for disobedient children, or wipe out every man, woman, and baby in their bed to clear these ‘idol worshippers’ from the ‘promised land’ for God’s ‘chosen people’. I could go on and on…
And while the above is not the whole of Judaism, it is an accepted, central part of it that the Gnostics (and Jesus) rightfully rejected.
The Old Testament God didn't say all those things either. The scribes say he did.... their concept of GOD was flawed, not GOD Himself... just like many Christians, Muslims, and Atheists still comprehend GOD as a man with a white beard on a throne rooting for sides in a football game.
So you are saying there was some kind of evil conspiracy by the Old Testament Jewish scribes? If so, who or what do you think guided their hands?
No evil intent... they wrote what they believed to be accurate... based on the spoken word handed down for generations.
The scribes themselves were the Rabbis and Jewish holy men. You are implying that the Jewish religion became corrupted and ignorant of its original intent in a similar manner to how the Christian religion became corrupted over generations. In this we agree…
But it was not, by any means, purely an accident…
do tell