Circumcision of the Spirit

The disciples asked, “Is circumcision a good thing?” Jesus replied, “If it were would not children be born circumcised from the mother’s womb? Only circumcision in the spirit confers true benefit”.


Hi all, I am interested in the symbolic meaning of the above verse, and would like to hear other views on what the procedure of circumcision of the spirit involves or hints at on a spiritual level, and what benefits would it convey?. I would also be interested in other perspectives and relevant factors.


Whatever one may think of Saint Paul, his take is similar to the passage above.

Romans 2:25-29: “For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.”

Circumcision is/was Jewish law. To follow the law in its outward form but not in your heart confers no lasting inward benefit. Following the law (God’s Law), can only be good for us. Yet, in following the Law but trying to subvert it or not make it an attribute of your heart obviates any true growth otherwise gained, and actually makes the Soul barren and wayward, lost, as there is no inward compass of understanding of health and goodness.

There is also a deeper meaning to this passage others might like to comment on. Either way, I shall let that pass for the time being.

Thanks for your input Len, the verse just got me thinking, does it mean a cutting of the spirit, like the weeding of bad thoughts, to enable good thoughts to grow, yet the level of the spirit is deeper, is the verse suggesting, that even the triggers(unhealthy spirit) of negative thoughts should be cut to a degree, weather the trigger is conscious or subconscious to an individual, would that suggest that an individual must be acutely aware of themselves to such a degree, as to be able to separate and isolate/identify the spirit within?

Then again i was thinking, isn’t spirit defined by what we attach to it, how we perceive and utilize it?, could it not just be redefined or redirected into other healthy areas?

Also a cutting of the spirit, could allow for new growth to take its place, like being an empty cup for learning, if always full, how do we have room to learn something new…could this analogy also be applied to the verse?

All of that can be applied to the verse, Ra.

Thoughts, habits, overt actions require intense self awareness on the Path to Godhood, or the Mastery of Life. Following the Law in your Heart is a circumcision of the Spirit, a weeding out of what is perverse, unhealthy, and extraneous to allow for healthy growth. We are gardeners of the Earth and of the Soul. Pull the weeds, trim the hedges, clear the undergrowth and brush; and we will live in paradise within and without. Otherwise, we become animals again at the mercy of the wild as weeds eat away at our vitality and beasts of prey tear us limb from limb. This can be applied to civilization, your household, your physical environment, and your soul. But first, be a master of your soul and the rest will follow.

These things (the garden, the wild, the circumcision) are not the Spirit, but they are what molds the Spirit and what it is surrounded by.

:o :o Now I remember why this sort of thing I tend to shy away from… the sentence structures just do my head in… :wink: My utmost admiration goes to those who can wade through this sort of thing - the Bible, the Kolbrin, and other such writings.

I wonder, Len, would it not be better to not do away with these things? Instead, perhaps, would we be better served if we understood the negatives (or our perception thereof), placed them in an appropriate place within our mind and being, and then worked around and through them?

Are you able to elaborate on this Len?

Is it better to do away with these things? I would say that depending on the circumstance of the individual it may be better to work around and through the limitation, ignorance, or perversion one is struggling with, which is a kind of Tantra if viewed from the Eastern lens.

At other times and circumstances for other individuals it is better to weed out or circumcise what is unhealthy. It may no longer be necessary to experience and go through certain perversions to transcend them. In the latter case, a ‘weeding’ or ‘circumcision’ is the better course of action.

Knowing what method to apply to each problem or personality can get tricky, and even dangerous… but “this too, shall pass” with time.

Not quite yet… I’d like to see some more commentary and questions on this subject first… :wink:

These things (the garden, the wild, the circumcision) are not the Spirit, but they are what molds the Spirit and what it is surrounded by.

This being the case, then such mouldings must surely become part of the Spirit.

Thoughts, habits, overt actions require intense self awareness on the Path to Godhood, or the Mastery of Life.

Are you referring to responsibility here Len? I would presume the subconscious falls within this definition?

Following the Law in your Heart is a circumcision of the Spirit, a weeding out of what is perverse, unhealthy, and extraneous to allow for healthy growth.

Is it really necessary (or even possible) to weed such things from your Heart? I understand that once such things are experienced, like all things experienced, they stay there. Surely it would be better to utilise such knowledge by neutralising or minimising their effects by supplanting them with higher frequency thought and action thereby gaining a greater understanding of both concepts.

Yes, just as a clay jar is molded by a master artisan, the mold remains through the expertise of the hands, the wheel, and the fire; yet no trace of the hands, wheel, or fire remains anywhere to be found in the jar itself.

Yet, in the hands of a child or novice, the jar hardly even resembles a jar and retains the disfigured impression of the hands, wheel, and fire.

So it is with the Spirit.

I was referring more to an intensified responsibility that is assumed as one is consciously walking the Soulpath. But yes, the subconscious is included as well, but at a decreased level of responsibility. The level of responsibility is quite different and transferred when, for example, a young child hits someone or steals something as compared to a mature adult committing the same action. There is still an amount of responsibility for the actor in either case, but the consequential damage falls more severely on the adult.

(Those that choose to remain unconscious, or sublimate previously gained awareness take on an added burden, or consequence. This is a different case than youthful and innocently ignorant unconsciousness.)

You can weed anything you like out from your heart, molding your soul to your desire, although that may not always be the best way. A doctor severs an infected limb when it threatens the health of the rest of the body. We lay down and discard our bodies and bodily senses in death. We no longer have eyes, but what we chose to look at stays with us… or at least the Lesson of what we saw stays with us… unless we choose to discard that Lesson…

It is not always best to plant a flower on top of a weed, hoping the flower will supplant the weed. But as I said in in my last post, it depends on the circumstance. And I cannot in this instance generalize and say one method of advancement is always better, while the other may not even be possible. I cannot, because I have experience both weeding and supplanting myself, and can say that both really do work. I say that with the caveat that weeding is sometimes necessary and healthy, and at other times dangerous and exceedingly difficult. Likewise with the supplanting method. Although with supplanting, the weed can occasionally be masked, rotting the flower from within just as it reaches maturity, and all unseen; an occasionally invisible stranglehold that causes one to go in a loop, not quite seeing what the problem is. It can be tricky to figure out which method to use, but very often the method of least resistance or the method followed blindly by habit is the one getting Seekers in trouble.

Now gentlemen ,
Let me put the cat, amongst the pigeons…don’t hate me, please !
This whole argument about what circumcision means is in vain.
Such questions, will only beg a million more, and you will spend years in fruitless argument, about things that need not be so complicated. There are a million correct answers to a question like this, about the human spirit, and its nature. Of these things, how much understanding can we gather really, incarnated as we are, in these bodies. We are like men looking at distant stars, we can only really imagine, we cant possibly know.
Life is too short, time is valuable, and a gift. And I believe the answer is simple.
I , am a Jew, by birth, and by choice, as I chose to be circumcised late in life, in an effort to correct my wayward path, and re connect myself with the G-d of Israel, and with my people in covenant
And I know this…
That Circumcision was passed down to Israel, from Avraham, who came from Ur, in Summeria.
He knew all about the Summerian gods.
The Anunnaki, were born without foreskins. They had long side curls, and didn’t cut thier beards.
They wore a four cornered garment, and had tassles on the fringes in some pictograms.
The Anunnaki have one G-d, The Creator of all…Avrham, was wanting us to emulate the Anunnaki, and knew of the Anunnaki G-d, he passed these traditions down to us, so that when we meet the Anunnaki, we will recognise them, and they will recognise us.
I’m just putting it out there…
Oh oh, here come the lions !

No lions required for that post, Sha’ul. :wink:

Everything you have mentioned theorizes a historical, physical explanation for justifying surgical circumcision.

This is not what the subject of this thread is about. In spiritual and religious instruction, there are often multiple meanings expressed within a single teaching. In this case, there is at least an exoteric and esoteric understanding of circumcision.

The first two posts of this thread give Jesus’ and Paul’s take on the true benefit received from the metaphorical, esoteric aspects of circumcision. Then Ra, Lance, and I delved further into these metaphysical aspects.

If you’d like to talk about the historical and physical reason, feel free to start another thread about it. Otherwise, we’d love to hear your take on the metaphorical, metaphysical explanation of circumcision right here. :slight_smile:

Len, I do not mind if we discuss the historical and physical reasons, as it helps in understanding the subject/question better, as i have found sha’ul post very interesting, and relevant to the bigger picture.(i will modify the question to encompass the historical and physical reasons)

Understanding different levels/perceptions helps in seeing the whole picture.

Sha’ul - wow

To me it seams the tradition has been keep, to remind your people of the symbolic meaning of circumcision, in many cultures, the real reasons behind traditions have been lost, or the symbolic act assigned to some different meaning, yet the people continue to follow, the traditions of there ancestors. If the tradition is so you will recognise the Anunnaki, I see it so that your people would recognize clean?/pure?/growing?/strong? spirit!(not sure which word to use, but they all came to mind) and vice versa, i suspect the symbolic tradition is a way to imprint the spiritual process cleaning/circumcision of spirit, within the individual partaking, which conveys the true benefit.

Gives a whole different meaning to who the anunnaki are, doesn’t it?

(Just a side note, waitaha state that the reason why they came and settled here, was because they were looking for the purest waters and its source, they found it, in symbolic terms that would translate into the the other levels as the purest consciousness, and purest spirit, Just something to ponder)

Don’t we all have the potential to reach that level of purity?

My main purpose in why i asked the question, was to define a sure system or process in how to clean the spirit(circumcision), hopefully identifying some sure method in which one could follow. What you have provide for me sha’ul, is also a possible purpose in regard to the anunnaki.

Thanks for that, I would be interested in hearing more about the teachings or rituals involved in the circumcision process, which could reveal more clues and affirmations?

P.s I do not recall hearing any argument, just two men sharing there own truths, from there own perspectives

Thank you Len and lance for your continued input, both of you have valid points.

I concur with you Ra. Len, it had completely slipped my mind concerning correspondences. Now that Ra has mentioned this, there may well be a correlation between spiritual circumcision and physical circumcision. In so many respects, I could well imagine the latter to be a physical representation of the former - or perhaps even a way to understand this particular concept from a more primitive phase in our current human history. Who knows, it may even be a carry over from the last age to this one (i.e. from the last end time to our current dawn time).

Does anyone else know anything about this concept? Sha’ul, could you possibly go into more detail about the circumcision ritual as it relates to your peoples and its more religio-spiritual meaning?

Ra, I can see more clearly now why Waitaha wanted to settle here. In fact, I would hazard a guess that they actually sought the land out (I am not all that familiar with the Waitaha story, but thanks to your efforts, I am finding out more and more).

Understanding different levels/perceptions helps in seeing the whole picture.

Couldn’t agree more. Potentially pieces of a greater jigsaw puzzle could prove enlightening.

There usually is, which is why I prompted Sha’ul to make more correspondences between what he knows of the historical, physical ritual act of circumcision with its spiritual component and meaning. This would help to make the connection to what is referred to in the very title of the thread, Circumcision of the Spirit.

So much has been lost or ignored in the old myths, old rituals, and old teachings that what we see today is often only an outdated shell of what once was. Elsewhere on the forum ( ) we had begun to discuss some of these correspondences in ancient thought as to how ancient cultures wrapped multiple meanings and types of learning into each specific Teaching. It is my hope that we do not repeat the one dimensional mistakes of our times and recent ancestors by discounting or throwing out layers of wisdom we haven’t yet deciphered out of fear or pride. The levels of Truth unwrapped in Teachings I feel should be approached as a child approaches a mystery, and uncovering the wheels within wheels.

Within the context of circumcision, there are also several African tribes that partake of ritual circumcision that have a tradition in this not directly linked to the Jews. I think a cross cultural comparison of the same ritual would even further add to our knowledge of particular subjects, in a similar kind of way to comparing the Great Flood myths that are found in so many ancient cultures the world over.

There usually is, which is why I prompted Sha'ul...

Wondered as much. Excellent.

So much has been lost or ignored in the old myths, old rituals, and old teachings that what we see today is often only an outdated shell of what once was.

Yes, it is sad that so much knowledge, wisdom and lore has been ignored and lost, particularly lost at the hands of those who believe they have more to gain by having such stuff lost/ignored. Perhaps, though, such knowledge, etc. is not so much lost but slumbering until such times as it can be more fully appreciated; or perhaps appreciated in a better light of greater understanding?

As Gwineva so poignantly exemplified, nothing is ever lost permanently. Such knowledge, such wisdom, such lore, is, and will always, be there mindfully awaiting the necessary stirrings that will enable it to come back into the light and, hopefully, move that little bit further ahead.

It is my hope that we do not repeat the one dimensional mistakes of our times and recent ancestors by discounting or throwing out layers of wisdom we haven't yet deciphered out of fear or pride.

I hope that also, but as I mentioned above, nothing is ever truly lost. Misplaced or hidden, sleeping or temporarily off-line, it will never really be lost. This runs contrary to the dictates of the so-called global elite (and other control freaks) in their endeavours to ensure such knowledge/ wisdom/etc. is to all intents and purposes lost to the masses.

Just my humble opinion…you can’t really talk about circumcision of the spirit without talking about physical circumcision. Since the two have been combined a few thousand years ago either by a misinterpretation, or by a pagan ritual. I feel that the physical circumcision could have been done for a number of reasons. One being it was a piece of skin not needed, two it was a matter of hygiene, (and how to you get a a population to mutilate themselves, you tell them that it’s a covenant with God and you have to have it done or you get the boot), or even because some holy men were born already circumcised.

See Aposthia.

The Midrash of Ki-Tetze notes that Moses was born aposthic. Other sources tell us that Jacob, his son Gad, and David were also born aposthic. Apparently, David Levy, former Israeli Foreign Minister and member of Knesset, was born aposthic. Arye Avneri’s authorized 1983 biography of Levy notes this: “When David Levy was born … his mother Sima noticed at once that he was different from other baby boys. He had been born already circumcised, for the foreskin was entirely missing.”

What is it? Removal of the flesh. A symbolic removal of the flesh. My opinion…That’s the scoop. :wink:

Joshua 5:2 where the Bible tells us:

'At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt. Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised. For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey. And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way. And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole. And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day."

Why did God command them to be circumcised again? We’ve already pointed out that a person can’t be physically circumcised twice. There is a spiritual truth here. Before the Israelites could enter into their inheritance, the nation had to be re-consecrated to God. Here God looked at the nation as a whole when saying that the nation needed to be “circumcised again the second time.” It was the flesh that caused the Israelites to fail at God’s promise to enter into the promised land. And although they had a covenant relationship with God, it was this flesh that had to be dealt with before the nation could finally enter in to their blessing.

Likewise, spiritual circumcision is a point of consecration to God. As a general rule we are pretty found of this stuff we call flesh. We pamper it and cater to it. We feed it and water it and generally take pretty good care of it. Self-preservation is a strong instinct. Allowing God to “cut off our flesh” takes more than a casual commitment to the cause. It takes real consecration.

I believe the bible addresses this tendency in Christians to be overzealous in whacking each other up. In Phil. 3:2 Paul tells the church something that the average person passes right over. However it is relevant to our message. “Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.”

Paul used this word in a contemptuous manner referring to those who still required physical circumcision for a person to be right with God. However there is a deeper meaning here. Paul didn’t warn them of the “circumcision” as he had in other places, but of the “concision.” The word meant “mutilators of the flesh.”

I believe Paul was telling the Philippians to be careful. He wanted us to be sure that in the process of cutting off the flesh we didn’t “mutilate” people.

Spiritual circumcision was to performed by the Spirit of God.

Ok, get the lions ready !
Now, I’m no Torah kochim ( Tora expert", but…to Jews, the rite of circumcision may well have spiritual overtones.BUT…that is NOT what it is about.
It is about a “sign”, and outward sign, yes, maybe of an inward attitude, but firstly and foremost, an outward way of showing that one was a descendant of Avraham, Yitzach V’Ya’akov. And thus, a member of the “chosen” people, and a member of the family of Avraham. No Brit Milah, no covenant.
It also says, that whatever zera, or “seed”, passes through the penis (sorry) and fertalises the ovam, is also a descendant of Avraham, and will be, when himself circumcised, a partaker in the covenant HaShem, G-d, Yahweh, or perhaps Ea Enki , made with Avraham about his descendants, and then reiterated with Yitzach and Ya’akov.
When it is written in Yehoshua, that HaShem commanded the Israelites to again submit themselves to Brit Milah , cutting of the flesh, it was because, as it is written, thier naughty parents had not obeyed the voice of the Lord in seeing that on the 8th day, when the hemagloben in the blood will clot,( thus the baby wont bleed to death), they were circumcised If you are not circumcised, you are not ritualy amongst the congregation of Israel.
Thus, even a goy (non Jew) must submit himself to Brit Milah to be accepted into the fold of the house of Israel.
I belive, that this sign, as I have said, was instituted by Avraham, who was told by “G-d”, to do it, as a sign that they were the people of “G-d”, whoever and whatever that "G-d is, is open to conjecture. But it was a physical sign, and nothing more, until much later when the “spirituality” was developed. If you are looking for a spiritual sign, it is being “shomer Shabbat”, watcher, or keeper of the Sabbath, as this is a sign that the keeper of the Shabbat recognises the G-d who gave the Sabbath commandment as the creator of Earth. As like G-d, they rest, or “stop any creative work” on the seventh day. Another outward sign, that eventualy had spiritual over tones. Just to note, In the Enuma Elish,tje Sumerian creation epic Ea (Enki), commands a rest break for the Earth mission team of Anunnaki on the seventh day, after they had completed all their work setting up camp.

While I agree with your knowledge of the outward explanation of circumcision, outward rituals such as these serve a spiritual purpose. An act solemnly done in the flesh augments a spiritual intention, act, oath, or covenant. In the example of circumcision, it is a mutilation/sacrifice of the flesh that once done, cannot be undone; signifying the permanence of God’s covenant with His People. Even when it is done to an eight day old boy, it is a promise by the parents that the boy belongs to God for life… and the boy, growing up, will never forget this mark and its purpose upon him. This is the spiritual meaning for circumcision of Jews.

And for Jews wishing to deny the powerful spirituality of their ancestors, God, or the Torah I would offer them the following passage from the Torah:

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.

For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe." – Deuteronomy 10:16-17

Please don’t get the impression I’m denying any spirituality of my ancestors, powerful or not. But I have come to realise that we were not the only one’s with a powerful spirituality.
MY point is, about circumscision, is that the spirituality came later “first the fleshly, then the spiritual”, as Paul writes in the NT.
I was going to write what Rashi has to say regarding the rite, but its just too long ! But he does write about the metaphysical side of the act, and he says it is symbolic of overcoming physical barriers to spiritual escendancy, I suggest that maybe you get yourself an Artscroll Chumash (Torah) that has all the Rashi commentary alongside the Hebrew /English scripture.
I’m not trying to belittle, or downplay the importance of circuscision, its just that I am trying to put it into its real context, aside from myth and legend, and people trying to over spiritualise it.
I may at times go overboard concerning my anti spiritualisation bent, but I have seen far too much of it in my life, and I like you, am out to find the truth, above all else.
Do you think El Shaddai/ Yahweh Elohim, is the Supreme Spirit, or a demi god, or maybe an Anunnaki pretending to be the Creator of all ?
That, my dear friend, is my first question regarding the commandment.
Did Avraham make the whole story up, or did somebody else , and was it really an attempt by Avraham to make sure that when his Sumerian gods, the Anunnaki retrun, they recognised his descendants as their own ?, I am still only %48 through the Kolbrin, and if what is written in there about the Exodus, from the point of view of the Egyptians,is true ,then why does it say what it does in the Torah ? No mention at all of the Destroyer, or any astronomical event, totally white washed out . Surely, one must be true, and the other not , unless I am missing something ?
Of course, the covenant of the Land of Israel, and its inheiratance is also determined by cicumscision, as is marriage to an Israelite woman, and of course one cannot partake of the Passover feast unless one is a circumscised male.
Many other outward signs, such as not cutting the beard, growing payot (side curls), and wearing of Tzitzits ( the tassles o a four cornered garment with the blue thread) wich are all equaly commandments, not optional, and all have of course a metaphysical purpose, sometimes only explained in the Zohar.
All of these signs though, served a central purpose of "making a holy (Chadosh=separate) people.
Israel;, is not so much chosen, as separated out, like one does with sheep or cattle, in fact, Am Yisra’EL, is often spoken of as sheep, or goats, and thus the shepherd of Israel, has marked His flock.
As well as Brit Milah, there is also for boys, Bar Mtzvah, at 13, which is the young man, and nowa days young woman Bat Mtzvah, taking apon themselves the responsibility before G-d, and the community, of keeping the mitzvot (commandments), and the parents being released from their responsibility before the community and G-d, of their childrens adherence to the mitzvot.
Anyway, that’s where I’m at brother.
Love and light !

The oldest recorded verifiable practice of circumcision comes from the Egyptians, circa 2400 BC. See below:

In Circumcision: A History Of The World’s Most Controversial Surgery, David Gollaher writes the following (Emphasis is mine):

"THE GENESIS OP CIRCUMCISION, LIKE MAGIC AND RELIGION, IS IMMEMORIAL. Evidence of its antiquity trails off in two distant streams. One of these flows from tribal societies, most famously, certain groups of Australian Aborigines, who have practiced totemic genital surgery for uncounted millennia. The other stream, far richer in historical materials yet equally mysterious with respect to its source, is a tributary into the mainstream of Western culture from the recesses of ancient Egypt.

The world’s oldest account of circumcision is an image in an Egyptian tomb. On the West Bank of the Nile, across from Memphis, home of the legendary genius, architect and physician Imhotep, stands the necropolis of Saqqara. Even by Egyptian standards Saqqara is archaic, built sometime around 2400 B.C. during the Old Kingdom’s fifth dynasty…

The historical trail begins with them. Yet what the Saqqara figures document was not the inception of a new ritual but a tradition far older than history itself. Mummified remains exhumed elsewhere in Egypt, predating Saqqara, have been subjected to X-ray scans, computerized tomography, and carbon dating. Some of these ancient corpses reveal indications of circumcision performed perhaps as early as 4000 B.C. …

Within the magico-religious framework of Egyptian science and medicine, circumcision apparently was a ritual marking the passage from youth to manhood. The transition was profound. Beyond the physical alteration of anatomy, the ritual entailed admittance into divine mysteries—secrets revealed only to the initiated. The content of these mysteries remains elusive, though they must have involved myths, prayers, and incantations central to Egyptian religion.The Egyptian Book of the Dead, for example, tells of the sun god Ra performing a self-circumcision, whose blood created two minor guardian deities…

Some scholars have guessed that the procedure was limited to the elite: that in its early phase, circumcision was a mark of superior distinction reserved primarily for the priests, beginning with the pharaohs themselves, who were worshiped as the high priest of every god. In any case, however, it was not applied consistently. X-ray scans of Pharaoh Ahmose from the sixteenth century B.C. show that he died, a mature adult, uncircumcised. Elsewhere, ruins contain depictions of circumcised carpenters. The principle of selection remains elusive…

What did circumcision mean? Doubtless it was partly about purification. Purity was an Egyptian obsession, and one of medicine’s main purposes was to purify, physically and spiritually.

In the view of ancients who emulated the Egyptians, circumcision seems to have been not just a matter of hygiene but of moral, spiritual, and intellectual refinement. Origen, the influential biblical scholar and theologian of Alexandria, thought that Egyptians used circumcision to distinguish priests and intellectuals who committed themselves to the highest learning. “For among Egyptians,” he wrote, “no one devoted himself to the study of astronomy, which was considered by them to be the noblest science, or at least to the secrets of astrology and genesis, which they considered to be the greatest thing, if he had not had himself circumcised.” It was most likely his desire to purify himself, to subject the flesh to the nobler dictates of the spirit, that motivated Pythagoras, a devoted student of Egyptian wisdom, to have himself circumcised."

Circumcision in Egypt was not a universal practice. Moses himself was never circumcised, for example, although his sons were. It is also clear that the circumcision in Egypt had a direct connection with Jewish circumcision. Jewish history here becomes muddled and obfuscated. A partial understanding of what took place with the Jews and their God(s) can be found in Sigmund Freud’s Moses and Monotheism. See my post on that book here: (Freud’s speculations here are not entirely correct, but do contain essential pieces to the puzzle in this mystery. More shall be revealed at the appropriate time…)

But in order to understand the mystery of circumcision, one must look to older cultures than the Jews as well, and recognize both the physical and spiritual implications of this act, as the ancients have repeatedly assured us.

There is also a much darker reason other ancients have practiced circumcision, although that will have to be discussed another time. The above is enough to ponder for now…

Wow Len,
You have more of a handle on this than I do. I really only belived it was from Avraham, due to either some Anunnaki initiation for their human subjects to perform as preists to their “gods”, or as a way of Avraham ensuring that when his Sumerian Anunnaki “gods” returned, they would recognise his progeny. And that any spirituality that may have grown around circuscision itself, was really more folklore and good ols Jewish superstition.
The Egytpian s ? I had no idea…
Thankyou my friend, I look forward to learning more.