Politically Opposed: How Can We Live Together?

(Note – This discussion was initiated after replying to a list of American Founding Fathers’ Quotes found here: http://culdiantrust.org/culdianforums/index.php?topic=220.0 )

It's hard to set aside politics and become brothers and sisters when politics are so diametrically opposed nowadays. I really see no hope for consensus with the dramatic conflict of beliefs that we see today. Best in any case would be for people to try to relocate among others who share their views to the largest extent.

I was discussing more in terms of online relationships on the forums, which can extend to face to face relationships among those of us whose prime interests relate to self-mastery, spirituality, truth, etc. Among these folks, political differences need not divide at all. On the contrary, I personally have spent extended periods of time with communists and anarchists (of which I am neither) in close quarters (in the woods and jungle) without political differences impinging upon our relationships in the slightest.

Perhaps it was the devotion to Truth above all else, which allowed for civility and comradery even following heated political debates. Perhaps it was that politics played a second to spirituality, and that the similar working towards personal advancement tied a stronger kinship than how a far off government (or lack of one) should be formed. In either case, political differences have rarely gotten in the way of my connections or friendships with those of similar spiritual goals.

I have been able to remain friends of people of very different ideologies yet we certainly don't strive for the same kind of world. It's mostly due to civility I think that these kinds of relationships can subsist such ideological antagonism.

There you go… civility is an essential to living together, regardless of ideology. Uncivil people of the same ideology have a hard time living together…

Yeah but civility has a limit, when people start pushing their own views too hard onto the rest then at some point people will snap, as civil as they may be.

Some people snap… others walk away… others smile, quietly understanding… others attempt to heal in ways conventional and unconventional. In the end I guess it would depend on one’s own level of civility, awareness, and personal proclivities.

What an interesting stew… :wink:

Well the American founding fathers were clearly not tolerating of certain ideologies and they spent all their effort fighting against them. I think there are certain things from which we can't walk away from because ultimately they threaten to destroy the fabric of all that holds our lives together.

Agreed, but they were able to live and debate amongst those who were of different ideologies (American loyalists to the British Crown), civilly and peacefully, before and after the revolution…

When there is a gun in your face, or blood in the street, well, that’s a different story.

Yeah well you can always debate civilly until a certain point, unfortunately when there's a clash of interests this is not of so much benefit ultimately.

Sometimes conflict is inevitable… and can even provide a cleansing function. My point was that that is rarely, if ever, necessary between Seekers on the Soulpath.

In any case, there should virtually be no risk of guns or blood where we stand in this group or in the forums. :wink:

I've lost many friendships with people who claimed they were spiritual due to politics. I guess they weren't so spiritual as they claimed after all.

Perhaps they, perhaps you… perhaps other dynamics in the situation not easily seen. But I suspect this is more a case of personality conflict and weak relationship skills rather than issues of ideology.

Well you know me Len, you can have a nasty argument with me and I'll be cool about it a while after. But these people just wouldn't tolerate different views.

I make no judgment in terms of who to blame, as I am unfamiliar with the details. But assuming another will not tolerate you because you hold different political beliefs, this is not open-mindedness, civility, or anything resembling one who seeks Truth wherever it leads.

Such a one cannot be on the Soulpath, whatever pretenses or parroting they make for spirituality. In this case, the dissolution of the relationship is better and healthier in the long run for you, Manuel.

Separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were…

Yes, I think this also applies to societies at the macro scale

One need not be friends to be associates, acquaintances, or neighbors…

It's not only about being friends, it's about coexistance. Some people just don't tolerate certain ways of perceiving life in this world. Trying to make people of diametrically opposite views coexist can only lead to strife.

These are extreme cases, Manuel. There are many people who claim strong political ideologies, but only the tiniest fraction of these would die for it. When push comes to shove, most people back down and adjust or redefine political views when a violent reality is on the horizon.

But sure, when things get this extreme, you either relocate, or pick up arms…

Again though, I’ve never seen such a thing happening among Seekers.

Maybe among true seekers I guess.

This is whom I mean… and this is whom I am speaking to in that post, as these are the sorts of people we’d like to attract to the forum… and yes, there are not many… :frowning:

Political divisions, among True Seekers, have been the least cause of division in my experience, even when those differences are extreme.

In any case, conflict is still sometimes necessary in the world at large. Blood will eventually spill, when people choose to force their will on others to the point of arms or confinement, this is an inevitability as long as people forcefully dominate others.

Yet, there is one quote form Jefferson I hesitated to share:

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” – Thomas Jefferson