President of Iran H.E. Hassan Rouhani Speech to the UN 9/24/13

World Events and News
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Been reading the Statement by H.E. Hassan Rouhani, President of The Islamic Republic Of Iran a the 68th Session of the United Nations General Assembly. NY, Sept 24th, 2013. I copied it for you below. I have the link, it’s a PDF, if you would like me to add that link I will. I put it in the blue box, but it does make the print very small and might be hard to read. Hard for me, but I can use my cheater reading glasses. :slight_smile:

Normally I would think it’s the same old lies…but this speech comes across as hopeful and I could only hope what he is saying is the truth. Maybe someone else can read the entire speech, and see what you think. There are a lot of people now looking at things we’ve been told differently. Like the Iran-evil axis remarks. Or do you think it’s a snow job? I’m certain there will be different opinions. I’m not quite sure what to think. Sounds very sincere and real.

In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful Praise be to God, the Lordofthe worlaÿ. Blessing andPeace be upon our Prophet Mohammad and his kin and companions.

Mr. President, Mr. Secretary-General, Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen,

At the outset, I would like to offer my most sincere felicitations on your deserved election to the presidency of the General Assembly and seize the moment to express appreciation for the valuable efforts of our distinguished Secretary-General.
Our world today is replete with fear and hope; fear of war and hostile regional and global relations; fear of deadly confrontation of religious, ethnic and national identities; fear of institutionalization of violence and extremism; fear of poverty and destructive discrimination; fear of decay and destruction of life-sustaining resources; fear of disregard for human dignity and rights; and fear of neglect of morality. Alongside these fears, however, there are new hopes; the hope of universal acceptance by the people and the elite all across the globe of “yes to peace and no to war”; and the hope of preference of dialogue over conflict, and moderation over extremism.

The recent elections in Iran represent a clear, living example of the wise choice of hope, rationality and moderation by the great people of Iran. The realization of democracy consistent with religion and the peaceful transfer of executive power manifested that Iran is the anchor of stability in an otherwise ocean of regional instabilities. The firm belief of our people and
government in enduring peace, stability, tranquility, peaceful resolution of disputes and reliance on the ballot box as the basis of power, public acceptance and legitimacy, has indeed played a key role in creating such a safe environment.

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen,

The current critical period of transition in international relations is replete with dangers, albeit with unique opportunities. Any miscalculation of one’s position, and of course, of others, will bear historic damages; a mistake by one actor will have negative impact on all others. Vulnerability is now a global and indivisible phenomenon. At this sensitive juncture in the history global relations, the age of zero-sum games is over, even though a few actors still tend to rely on archaic and deeply ineffective ways and means to preserve their old superiority and domination. Militarism and the recourse to violent and military means to subjugate others are failed examples of the perpetuation of old ways in new circumstances.

Coercive economic and military policies and practices geared to the maintenance and preservation of old superiorities and dominations have been pursued in a conceptual mindset that negates peace, security, human dignity, and exalted human ideals. Ignoring differences between societies and globalizing Western values as universal ones represent another manifestation of this conceptual mindset. Yet another reflection of the same cognitive model is the persistence of Cold
War mentality and bi-polar division of the world into “superior us” and “inferior others.” Fanning fear and phobia around the emergence of new actors on the world scene is another.

In such an environment, governmental and non-governmental, religious, ethnic, and even racial violence has increased, and there is no guarantee that the era of quiet among big powers will remain immune from such violent discourses, practices and actions. The catastrophic impact of violent and extremist narratives should not - in fact, must not - be underestimated.
In this context, the strategic violence, which is manifested in the efforts to deprive regional players from their natural domain of action, containment policies, regime change from outside, and the efforts towards redrawing of political borders and frontiers, is extremely dangerous and provocative.

The prevalent international political discourse depicts a civilized center surrounded by un-civilized peripheries. In this picture, the relation between the center of world power and the peripheries is hegemonic. The discourse assigning the North the center stage and relegating the South to the periphery has led to the establishment of a monologue at the level of international relations. The creation of illusory identity distinctions and the current prevalent violent forms of xenophobia are the inevitable outcome of such a discourse. Propagandistic and unfounded faith-phobic, Islamo-phobic, Shia-phobic, and Iran-phobic discourses do indeed represent serious threats against world peace and human security.

This propagandistic discourse has assumed dangerous proportions through portrayal and inculcation of presumed imaginary threats. One such imaginary threat is the so-called “Iranian threat” -which has been employed as an excuse to justify a long catalogue of crimes and catastrophic practices over the past three decades. The arming of the Saddam Hussein regime
with chemical weapons and supporting the Taliban and A1-Qaida are just two examples of such catastrophes. Let me say this in all sincerity before this august world assembly, that based on irrefutable evidence, those who harp on the so-called threat of Iran are either a threat against international peace and security themselves or promote such a threat. Iran poses absolutely no threat to the world or the region. In Fact, in ideals as well as in actual practice, my country has
been a harbinger of just peace and comprehensive security.

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen,
Nowhere in the world has violence been so deadly and destructive as in North Africa and West Asia. Military intervention in Afghanistan, Saddam Hussein’s imposed war against Iran, occupation of Kuwait, military interventions against Iraq, brutal repression of the Palestinian people, assassination of common people and political figures in Iran, and terrorist bombings in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon are examples of violence in this
region in the last three decades.

What has been - and continues to be - practiced against the innocent people of Palestine is nothing less than structural violence. Palestine is under occupation; the basic rights of the Palestinians are tragically violated, and they are deprived of the right of return and access to their homes, birthplace and homeland. Apartheid as a concept can hardly describe the crimes and the institutionalized aggression against the innocent Palestinian people.

The human tragedy in Syria represents a painful example of catastrophic spread of violence and extremism in our region. From the very outset of the crisis and when some regional and international actors helped to militarize the situation through infusion of arms and intelligence into the country and active support of extremist groups, we emphasized that there was no military solution to the Syrian crisis. Pursuit of expansionist strategies and objectives and attempts to change the regional balance through proxies cannot be camouflaged behind humanitarian rhetoric. The common objective of the international community should be a quick end to the killing of the innocent. While condemning any use of chemical weapons, we welcome
Syria’s acceptance of the Chemical Weapons Convention, and believe that the access by extremist terrorist groups to such weapons is the greatest danger to the region that must be considered in any disarmament plan. Simultaneously, I should underline that illegitimate and ineffective threat to use or the actual use of force will only lead to further exacerbation of
violence and crisis in the region.

Terrorism and the killing of innocent people represent the ultimate inhumanity of extremism and violence. Terrorism is a violent scourge and knows no country or national borders. But, the violence and extreme actions such as the use of drones against innocent people in the name of combating terrorism should also be condemned. Here, I should also say a word
about the criminal assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists. For what crimes have they been assassinated? The United Nations and the Security Council should answer the question: have the perpetrators been condemned?

Unjust sanctions, as manifestation of structural violence, are intrinsically inhumane and against peace. And contrary to the claims of those who pursue and impose them, it is not the states and the political elite that are targeted, but rather, it is the common people who are victimized by these sanctions. Let us not forget millions of Iraqis who, as a result of sanctions
covered in international legal jargon, suffered and lost their lives, and many more who continue to suffer all through their lives. These sanctions are violent, pure and simple; whether called smart or otherwise, unilateral or multilateral. These sanctions violate inalienable human rights, inter alia, the right to peace, fight to development, right to access to health and education, and above all, the right to life.

Sanctions, beyond any and all rhetoric, cause belligerence, warmongering and human suffering. It should be borne in mind, however, that the negative impact is not merely limited to the intended victims of sanctions; it also affects the economy and
livelihood of other countries and societies, including the countries imposing sanctions.

Mr. President, Excellencies,
Violence and extremism nowadays have gone beyond the physical realm and have unfortunately afflicted and tarnished the mental and spiritual dimensions of life in human societies. Violence and extremism leave no space for understanding and moderation as the necessary foundations of collective life of human beings and the modem society. Intolerance is the predicament of our time. We need to promote and reinforce tolerance in light of the religious teachings and appropriate cultural and political approaches. The human society should be elevated from a state of mere tolerance to that of collective collaboration.

We should not just tolerate others. We should rise above mere tolerance and dare to work together. People all over the world are tired of war, violence and extremism. They hope for a change in the status quo. And this is a unique opportunity - for us all. The Islamic Republic of Iran believes that all challenges can be managed - successfully - through a smart, judicious blend of hope and moderation. Warmongers are bent on extinguishing all hope. But hope for change for the better is an innate, religious, widespread, and universal concept.

Hope is founded on the belief in the universal will of the people across the globe to combat violence and extremism, to cherish change, to oppose imposed structures, to value choice, and to act in accordance with human responsibility. Hope is no doubt one of the greatest gifts bestowed upon human beings by their All-Loving Creator. And moderation is to think and move in a wise, judicious manner, conscious of the time and the space, and to align exalted ideals with choice of effective strategies and policies, while cognizant of objective realities.

The Iranian people, in a judiciously sober choice in the recent elections, voted for the discourse of hope, foresight and prudent moderation - both at home and abroad. In foreign policy, the combination of these elements means that the Islamic Republic of Iran, as a regional power, will act responsibly with regard to regional and international security, and is willing and
prepared to cooperate in these fields, bilaterally as well as multilaterally, with other responsible actors. We defend peace based on democracy and the ballot box everywhere, including in Syria, Bahrain, and other countries in the region, and believe that there are no violent solutions to world crises.

The bitter and ugly realities of the human society can only be overcome through recourse to and reliance on human wisdom, interaction and moderation. Securing peace and democracy and ensuring the legitimate rights of all countries in the world, including in the Middle East, cannot - and will not - be realized through militarism. Iran seeks to resolve problems, not to create them. There is no issue or dossier that cannot be resolved through reliance on hope and prudent moderation, mutual respect, and rejection of violence and extremism. Iran’s nuclear dossier is a case in point. As clearly stated by the Leader
of the Islamic Revolution, acceptance of the inalienable right of Iran constitutes the best and the easiest way of resolving this issue. This is not political rhetoric. Rather, it is based on a profound recognition of the state of technology in Iran, global political environment, the end of the era of zero-sum games, and the imperative of seeking common objectives and interests towards reaching common understanding and shared security. Put otherwise, Iran and other actors should
pursue two common objectives as two mutually inseparable parts of a political solution for the nuclear dossier of Iran.

Iran’s nuclear program - and for that matter, that of all other countries - must pursue exclusively peaceful purposes. I declare here, openly and unambiguously, that, notwithstanding the positions of others, this has been, and will always be, the objective of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Nuclear weapon and other weapons of mass destruction have no place in Iran’s security and defense doctrine, and contradict our fundamental religious and ethical convictions. Our national
interests make it imperative that we remove any and all reasonable concerns about Iran’s peaceful nuclear program.
_
The second objective, that is, acceptance of and respect for the implementation of the right to enrichment inside Iran and enjoyment of other related nuclear rights, provides the only path towards achieving the first objective. Nuclear knowledge
in Iran has been domesticated now and the nuclear technology, inclusive of enrichment, has already reached industrial scale. It is, therefore, an illusion, and extremely unrealistic, to presume that the peaceful nature of the nuclear program of Iran could be ensured through impeding the program via illegitimate pressures.

In this context, the Islamic Republic of Iran, insisting on the implementation of its rights and the imperative of international respect and cooperation in this exercise, is prepared to engage immediately in time-bound and result-oriented talks to build mutual confidence and removal of mutual uncertainties with full transparency.

Iran seeks constructive engagement with other countries based on mutual respect and common interest, and within the same framework does not seek to increase tensions with the United States. I listened carefully to the statement made by President Obama today at the General Assembly. Commensurate with the political will of the leadership in the United States
and hoping that they will refrain from following the short-sighted interest of warmongering pressure groups, we can arrive at a framework to manage our differences. To this end, equalfooting, mutual respect, and the recognized principles of international law should govern the interactions. Of course, we expect to hear a consistent voice from Washington.

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen,
In recent years, a dominant voice has been repeatedly heard: “The military option is on the table.” Against the backdrop of this illegal and ineffective contention, let me say loud and clear that “peace is within reach.” So, in the name of the Islamic Republic of Iran I propose, as a starting step, the consideration by the United Nations of the project: “the World Against
Violence and Extremism.” (WAVE) Let us all join this “WAVE.” I invite all states, international organizations and civil institutions to undertake a new effort to guide the world in this direction.

We should start thinking about “Coalition for Enduing Peace” all across the globe instead of the ineffective “Coalitions for War” in various parts of the world.

Today, the Islamic Republic of Iran invites you and the entire world community to take a step forward; an invitation to join the WAVE: World Against Violence and Extremism. We should accept and be able to open a new horizon in which peace will prevail over war, tolerance over violence, progress over bloodletting, justice over discrimination, prosperity over poverty,
and freedom over despotism.

As beautifully said by Ferdowsi, the renowned Iranian epic poet: Be retÿntless in striving for the cause of Good Bring the spring, you must, Banish the winter, you should Notwithstanding all difficulties and challenges, I am deeply optimistic about the future. I have no doubt that the future will be bright with the entire world solidly rejecting violence and
extremism. Prudent moderation will ensure a bright future for the world. My hope, aside from personal and national experience, emanates from the belief shared by all divine religions that a good and bright future awaits the world. As stated in the Holy Qur’an: And We proclaimed in the Psalms, after We had proclaimed in the Torah, that My
virtuous servants will inherit the earth. (21:105)

Thank you Mr. President

I like that WAVE thingy: “World Against Violence and Extremism”. Amazing speech, true or not. One can only hope I suppose.

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It would appear President Rouhani is using a reconciliatory approach to the current Syrian crisis (and by default, the after-effects of the Syrian conflict). He acknowledges the past and present mindsets of all countries involved yet offers a possible course of action completely different to anything offered in the past.

Perhaps this speech will give citizens of Earth greater hope for a possibly brighter future. Who knows. But it could indeed be something to hold onto. It could also be utilised by those working towards a better, brighter future for all humanity (not merely factions - be they elite or otherwise). There is definitely an opportunity for those working in the light (so-to-speak) to forge ahead here. Let us see what happens as we perhaps each play our own part, no matter how great or small that part may be.

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He did an interview with CNN. Truly a fascinating person.

"ROUHANI: All my efforts are geared to ensure that the people of Iran will comfortably be able to access all information globally and to use it. There are large social networks at a global level around today. And I believe that all human beings have a right, and all nations have a right to use them ."

With any luck we’ll be hearing more from people living in Iran. I’ve been hoping for this. I really do hope he means what he says. Below is a section of the CNN interview relating to the Holocaust. The link to the CNN video of the interview and the entire written transcript of it is there. I’m sure we’ve all heard that the previous President of Iran denied it even happened. This new President has a different view of things.

AMANPOUR: One of the things you did, and also your foreign minister did, was to Tweet new year greetings to Jews in Iran and around the world, Rash Hashanah greetings.

You also brought with you on this delegation the only Jewish member of the Iranian parliament.

Why was it important for you to bring him here?

ROUHANI: Our effort here is to tell the world public opinion that Iran is not only not anti-Semitic, but rather that it respects the customs and beliefs of the Jewish people. You will know that we respect the divine book of the Jewish people. We respect their prophet, Moses. And you are aware that in the Iranian parliament, given that the number of Jews in Iran are very small, that they still retain a representative in - in the parliament. And that representative, uh, can use the platforms given to him to speak for him - his views and the views of the minority that he represents in Iran.

And therefore, this Jewish representation can actually speak of the reality of the lives of the Jewish people in Iran. We are proud of peaceful – our history of peaceful coexistence with followers of all belief systems. You know that many of the worshipping places of minority religions, uh, have - have their base in Iran. And they are located in different parts of Iran. And people who follow them , those worshippers - those worshipping sites have not only representatives in the parliament, but are allowed to freely practice their creed and belief system.

AMANPOUR: One of the things your predecessor used to do from this very platform was deny the Holocaust and pretend that it was a myth. I want to know you, your position on the Holocaust.

Do you accept what it was?

And what was it?

ROUHANI: I have said before that I am not a historian personally and that when it comes to speaking of the dimensions of the Holocaust as such, it is the historians that should reflect on it.

But in general, I can tell you that any crime or - that happens in history against humanity, including the crime that the Nazis committed towards the Jews, as well as non-Jewish people, is reprehensible and condemnable, as far as we are concerned.

And just as even such crimes are - if they are to happen today against any creed or belief system or human being as such, we shall again condemn it.

So what the Nazis did is condemnable. The dimensions of whatever it is, the historians have to understand what it is. I am not a historian myself, but we - it must be clear here, is that when there is an atrocity, a crime that happens, it should not become a cover to work against the interests or - or justify the crimes against another nation or another group of people.

So if the Nazis, however criminal they were, we condemn them, whatever criminality they committed against the Jews, we condemn, because genocide, the taking of the human life, is condemnable and it makes no difference whether that life is a Jewish life, a Christian or a Muslim or what.

For us, it’s the same. It’s the taking of a human life and an innocent human life is (INAUDIBLE) in Islam. It’s actually something that we condemn and our religion also rejects.

But this does not mean that, on the other hand, you can say, well, the Nazis committed crimes against, you know, a certain group, now, therefore, they must usurp the land of another group and occupy it. This, too, is an act that should be condemned, in our view.

So there should be an even-handed discussion of this.


http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/25/transcript-amanpour-rouhani-interview/

I hope we hear more from him in the future. Now if I only knew how to “tweet” I guess I could follow what he has to say more. If someone here “tweets” maybe you can find his tweets, and I can figure out how to use Twitter, so I can be a tweeter too. Sounds so funny.

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What a awesome speech Diane, I have always liked Iran, just by there manner and posture to certain situations, they have displayed attributes of worthy note in war terms. With the western media constantly highlighting the worst about them, It makes me wonder why the tptb see’s such a threat, I find it very hypocritical considering the one’s that make the most noise are the ones that still possesses WMDs.

The biggest winner so far in the Syrian situation seems to me to be the U.N, with its intention to disarm the world?. What country is next? The whole situation is being exploited to incorporate systems that become the bases for future control, and used as a tool in infiltrate and disrupt sovereignty of nations, the boundary’s of which is being erode away.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_un.htm#menu

I have a interest in the 12th Mahdi of the shia, in regards to the returning Christ/messiah.

An other point of interest in relationship, is the historical link between Iran and Ireland of the ancient past.

An Ethno-Cultural Etymological Interconnection? Sounds Incredulous but Real!

Francesca Speranza Wilde (1821-1896) aka Lady Jane Wilde (Eglee) born in Dublin, Ireland was a poet, folklorist and Irish nationalist for independence. She has written books and manuscripts on Ancient Legends, Mystic Charms, and Superstitions of Ireland, as well as Words of Women. Please see http://www.libraryireland.com/AncientLegendsSuperstitions/Introduction.php for a sample of her writings and purchase her books on www.amazon.com . In her manuscripts she clearly demonstrates the origin of language and spiritual rituals of the Irish people deeply rooted in the Persian/Iranian origin. She deciphers twenty words in all contemporary European languages especially Gaelic (Guilak in Persian along the Caspian Sea!) which philologists consider should have belonged to the original tongue that came with the migrations from the east via Iran of the distant past. Due to its isolations from the mainland Europe in general, evidenced by the unadulterated dialect in Erin, a much smaller sequestered island west of the green Emerald Island beyond which lies the vast ocean in particular, Irish language is nearer to Sanskrit via the Iranian languages than any other living and spoken language in Europe.

Ireland has briefly been invaded by the Romans from the south in the 1st century, the Viking’s from the north in the 10th century, and the British from the west since the 14th century, nonetheless, these influences are all dissolved into the indigenous Irish cultures. The same concept of cultural dissolution into the indigenous culture has repeated occurred in Iran for the past several thousand years when invaded by the Greeks, the Arabs, and the Mongols. The Iranians selectively adopted bits and pieces from such neighboring societies and synthesized it with their own to generate an integrated outcome that was much stronger than the two. Lady Jane Wilde when elaborating on the mythological convergence between Tree, the Woman, the Well, and the Serpent-memories as well as other daily rituals like morning rituals and lyrics in Iran and Ireland states, “This source of life, creed, and culture now on earth, there is no reason to doubt, will be found in Iran, or Persia as we call it, and in the ancient legends and language of the great Iranian people, the head and noblest type of the Aryan races. Endowed with splendid physical beauty, noble intellect, and a rich musical language, the Iranians had also a lofty sense of the relations between man and the spiritual world, and never admitted idols into their temples, but only the supreme ONE creator.” So, no conundrums puzzle philologists who recognize the first syllabus in Ireland and Iran as Ær- in Sanskrit-the precursor to all Indo-European languages- Ær- means Arya-both nations as the “land of the Aryans.” For more information on her writing prose, please visit www.amazon.com and check out Ancient Legends, Mystic Charms and Superstitions of Ireland among others. After all, is it really coincidental that the flags of Iran, Ireland and India are each comprised of three stripes of green, white and red?!

http://www.irandokht.com/editorial/index4.php?area=org&sectionID=14&editorialID=3338

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LOL, I’m sorry, I don’t trust it. something about a dragon speaking like a lamb ?
I quote from the Quran, I’m not sure of the verse numbers, but I am of what it says.
" For there are two houses in the world, the house of Islam, and the house of war".
Islam has an agenda to subjugate all earths peoples under its sword, by willing submission, or by conquest.
That my friends, despite any lamblike speech, is the bottom line.
The Quran allows Muslims the freedom to extend the right hand of friendship, and make peace treaties with its enemies, until such a time that Muslims are able to overcome the enemy, and brake their vow of peace, because the word of a Muslim, does not hold with an infidel, it is no sin against Allah, to lie to an infidel.
Beware of wolfs, in sheep’s clothing.

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No need to be sorry for your lack of trust sha’ul.

As for Iran being a dragon speaking like a lamb, actions speak louder than words, as i understand it Iran has never invaded or attacked any country since biblical times?.

Quote

“While Iran has not attacked any other country in centuries, the United States has not done so well by Iran. Remember (or, like most U.S. citizens, learn for the first time): the United States overthrew Iran’s democracy in 1953 and installed a dictator. Then the United States aided Iraq in the 1980s in attacking Iran, providing Iraq with some of the weapons (including chemical weapons) that were used on Iranians and that would be used in 2002-2003 (when they no longer existed) as an excuse for attacking Iraq. For the past decade, the United States has labeled Iran an evil nation, attacked and destroyed the other non-nuclear nation on the list of evil nations, designated part of Iran’s military a terrorist organization, falsely accused Iran of crimes including the attacks of 9-11, murdered Iranian scientists, funded opposition groups in Iran (including some the U.S. also designates as terrorist), flown drones over Iran, openly and illegally threatened to attack Iran, and built up military forces all around Iran’s borders, while imposing cruel sanctions on the country.”

http://warisacrime.org/iran

Quote

Too often, religion is a quagmire into which the spirits of men sink and are lost, but it is the fault of men and not of religion. Each man has the religion he deserves and not necessarily the religion he needs. When it proves inadequate for his needs and he becomes disillusioned, he seeks to lay blame on the religon and not on himself. Religions which nourished weaknesses of character and ignorance in men have been destroyed by those same failings and are no more, but the religons are no more to blame than those who serve them. If a man put to sea in an unseaworthy boat, can he blame the craft if he be cast into the water? Still man is never abandoned and somewhere there is the religion he needs, though he may never find it because of his spiritual indolence.

kolbrin

Maybe we should be more worried about the lamb that speaks like a dragon, as described in Revelation 13 the one that performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people, anyone remember shock and awe ?

WAR Aviation - Shock & Awe Bombing Of Baghdad - Operation Ir

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Hi Ra,
I think all the Islamic states of the Middle East use green on their flags, like the green lights on top of Muzzin towers, where the call for prayer is sounded, or the green doors on Muslim homes and Moque’s. Green is the colour of Islam, like Blue is the colour of Judaism, Red Christianity.
Through history, red white and blue flags, have stood for the “good” guys, red, black, and green, for the “bad” guys. But I suppose that is subjective to weather or not you are on either of those sides.
I would take the Iraniians over the Irish, as far as national character goes. Most the Irish I have meet in my life, have a propensity for dishonesty, drunkenness and violence. Iranians I have meet, yes, even Muslims, are reserved, honest, hardworking people.
A muslim who is genuinely friendly to an infidel, is like a NAZI, who is kind to a Jew, neither one, is really aligned with their chosen, or imposed, belief system.
It is the nature of Islam, and its fruit, that sets me not to trust the Iranian leadership.
Remember, Achmadenajad had the backing of the Muslim Supreme Council, when he threatened to nuke Israel off the map. Iran does support many Jihadist groups, and terroroist oraganisations, LOL, as does America.
America though, because it has many descendants of the “lost ten tribes” within its population, is considered by those who study such matters, to be the prophetic “house of Mannashe”, Iran, or Persia, is set against the houses of Judah and Israel, by destiny.
For my part, if the Iranians went back to being Zoroastrians, they would probably be ok.
Love and light bro.

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Ok, momentarily going off topic here.

I beg your pardon! ;D You’ll be very happy to know you’ve met someone who’s Irish, not a drunk, not violent, and very honest! :-* Just playing with you Enkisfreind! I’m not insulted. :wink:

My Mothers mother was a Dennehy, (a personal name meaning ‘humane). My ancestors were originally part of an ancient Scottish tribe called the picts, then moving to Ireland. The name Dennehy is principally associated with Irish counties Cork and Kerry. In Cork, the name is most common in the Duhallow area, around the Blackwater river. The original form in Irish is Ó Duineachdha meaning descendant of Duineachaidh. Duineachaidh was chieftain of a small tribe in north-western Co. Waterford, on the border of Co. Cork who participated in the battles against the Danes in Limerick in 934." wiki. The Dennehy coat of arms is a divided shield, white on top, red on the bottom. The top has two lions rampart facing each other and a fish between them. The bottom is a harp between two battle axes.

I have cousins whose name are Finn, (The surname Finn has several origins. In some cases it is derived from the Irish Ó Finn, meaning “descendant of Fionn”; the byname means “white” or “fair-haired”) ,and Kerrigan. I’m not completely Irish. My Mothers father was a Koning-name in German Konig, in English meaning King. My father was a Hagedoorn, (meaning hedgethorn-German/Dutch). I can’t even find my Grandmothers last name anywhere…it sounded like Kolksbroch, also German Dutch.

But I am my Mothers daughter. I will defend my Irish roots! ;D

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Interesting comments on this subject.

Please forgive any ignorance concerning the wording of the Quran Sha’ul, but I read this particular line/verse as meaning that there is the house of Islam and another house called the house of War. To me this does not say anything about the two houses being one and the same. Not knowing the full context of the document, I could be so far out of my depth here.

In truth, I could well assume the house of war could mean the house of Israel or Jews; but it could also mean the Americans, irrespective of their association with the various tribes of Israel. I could also equate this to the Nazis of the early to mid 20th century and, to a very much lesser degree, the various forms of Nazism prevalent around the planet today. It could also be a reference to the Illuminati and Illuminism. All, from my perspective, distinct possibilities.

As for the colours of the flags… I know of so many cultures that have gone to war because of such foolish things, the Irish/English being only one sector. This seems to be how much of the dysfunction of humanity comes about - through petty ideologies having little to do with the betterment of every single human being.

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Ok…

  1. Go Diane, good on you for sticking up for your blood, it was a dumb generalisation. Nevetheless true in my experience, but a dumb generalisation nonetheless.
    Sorry if I offended you sister.
  2. Colors (or Colours) have meanigs, wars have never to my knowledge, been faught over the colour of a flag or pennant, but for what the flag or pennant stood for, or the ideology symbolised by it.
  3. the “House of Islam, house of war” statement, is in the context of the treatment of the unrepentant infidel, or unbeliever in Islam (submission) to the religion of Muhammed. It means that, to a real Wahabi Muslim, either you are with us, or against us Two houses, one of Islam (in submission to Allah, or the Muslim religion). and the other War, because Islam is in a state of Jihad (holy war) with it.
    Clear and simple.
    The two houses are not symbolic of Israel, the U.S, or any other single entity, but of a world divided between Muslims, and Infidels, whom once given the chance to convert, by force or otherwise, are afterwards fit only to be slain. A read of a good English translation sanctioned by the Islamic world themselves, might be in order here.
    If you are Dar El Katahb (People of the Book) or that is to say Jews or Christians, the you might survive if the Caliphate can derive some profit from you paying them what is essentially protection money, sadly though, the local Caliphate is not beholding to protect you against the mob, if it is deemed you have been tolerated long enough, and will not convert.
    Not all Muslims are bad, some are good people, who cannot help where they have been born, though I have come to believe, that people are born into the society they choose, so what kind of people choose to be born in such a society ?
    Are they "sons of light " ?
    Love and light my brothers and sisters.
11

Ref. #2 - the Irish Orange and Green. It is true there are philosophical reasons behind these colours, but they are referred to via colour nonetheless. There are also striking similarities between, for example, the Bear and the Eagle.

On a metaphysical level colours have various meanings, as do they when it comes to religion, philosophy and so-forth, especially as you begin to understand or realise the frequencies of the observable colours in our spectrum are merely a physical manifestation of frequency combinations that we are capable of seeing with our limited sense of sight.

Ref. #3 - sounds a lot like the Jews and Gentiles. Reference can also be made with the Christian v. Muslims back a few hundred years ago.

What you say regarding a Caliphate and his spoils of war (I am assuming that is how such a man would obtain such slaves other than through trade perhaps) is akin to feudalism such as that practised throughout history and even today.

Not all Muslims are bad, some are good people, who cannot help where they have been born, though I have come to believe, that people are born into the society they choose, so what kind of people choose to be born in such a society ?

I agree. Not all Muslims are bad, just like not all Muslims are good, nor all Christians are good or bad, nor all Jews good or bad. This can be said throughout society. This is the same as the Americans saying that all Russians (back during the cold war period) were evil because they were communists, while the Russians were saying that all Americans were bad because they are capitalists - neither statement was true.

Those who need the experiences that only such societies can offer them in their personal/spiritual development. The same could well be said about discarnate entities being born into our own New Zealand society.

Are they "sons of light " ?

It has to be understood that not everyone incarnating on Earth is here as a Light Worker (male or female, son or daughter). If this is a necessary part of their own development, then I would have to say they are most likely here as Light Workers, Light Bearers, and so-on. However, they may also be here with the specific purpose of providing the whole of humanity (or even simply one or two) with the opportunity to individually and/or collectively grow, and in so doing may well be classed as being evil pursuant to both individual and collective consciousnesses of the times.

One could also argue that yes, these are all sons of light, as we are all an aspect of the greatest of lights - the Supreme Spirit.

Just my thoughts on the matter…

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I think it incumbent to remind people of history in regards to Islam. As Rome was fully disintegrating, and orthodox forms of Christianity were wiping out mystical Christians and Jews, it was the rise of Islam that opened its arms to the light bearing refugees from the West. All who valued learning and free thought found safe haven in the Muslim regions, as the rest of Europe entered a Dark Age. In this Dark Age, many Kings could not even read, while Muslim peasants, and the refugees in their lands were literally inventing new sciences! It may be impossible to name the countless contributions early Islamic culture has given to science and innovation, and in peacefully accepting into their lands the greatest minds of the West, literally saved much that would have been lost had it not been for the protection of Islam.

(Here’s some few examples and a beginning point for research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_science )

Even right through the Middle Ages, technology, science, and education flowed from East to West from the Muslim lands. This ‘golden age’ of culture, science, and spirituality in Islam brought it the power and the wealth to grow farther and faster than it ever has since. And to this day, the largest population and structure for the ‘light working’ mystics of any of the Abrahamic Religions still resides within the House of Islam, known as Sufism. After the Prophet Mohammad’s death, mystical minded Muslims accepted, worked, and learned with Zoroastrians, Kabbalistic Jews, Gnostic and Mystic Christians, and pantheists. Mohammad himself met with these groups prior to his own Visions, and credits them with his true spiritual education prior to communing directly with Allah. This is why culture and spirituality was saved from annihilation in the West, and in fact grew to new, yet different, heights in its golden age. Islam became the ‘sword of God’ and Muslims His Warriors to what was increasingly the decadence, corruption, and evil that was slowly consuming Western Civilization. Islam was, and had been tasked, as the buffer and protection during this breakdown. Islam was given a Great Task, and has fulfilled, even exceeded it!

Today, Islam is in an awful state of spiritual decline, a low point in its cycle, just as Jews and Christians had been in other eras. There are reasons for this, and behind the scenes players that have exacerbated this for their own ends; specifics of which I shall not go into here.

I would also remind Sha’ul that Wahhabism is a recent growth in Islam (18th Century), and is only a small branch of the Sunnis, mainly residing in Saudi Arabia. Iran do not treat well with Wahhabists, as Iran is a Shiite country. Also, as a point of balance here, What Ra mentioned above is relevant. The last time Iran attacked or invaded anybody, they were called Persians and were fighting the Ancient Greeks, something close to 3,000 years ago! Yet, their scientists get assassinated (CIA and Mossad), viruses to collapse their weapons programs and infrastructure are deployed (Stuxnet, Flame etc. [U.S. and Israel created and deployed]), more peaceful and democratic governments completely overthrown (Britain and American), devastating economic, banking and business sanctions meant to hurt the entire Iranian population (sanctions such as these are historically considered siege warfare) (passed by the U.N. at the main demand of Britain, America and Israel), and I could really go on and on. To me, it is really a testament to the Persian people that they have not seriously retaliated considering the amount of provocation… But this is no surprise to me really, the Persians are some of the most self controlled, intelligent, and civilized people of Earth. So, why the provocation? I’ll leave that up to you to answer for the time being…

As to incarnating in Muslim countries, I ask that you think on more than one level… more can be learned and experienced in these places than what one might see at first glance.

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Is it possible to be on all sides? each color is important, we would not have a rainbow if it was not for green blue or red :slight_smile:

I do not think it matters where one is born, or into what sort of society, because no matter where, each individual is a son and daughter of man first and foremost, no matter what label others may attribute them because of place of birth.

So yes we are all born light workers, we are also all born into ignorance equally, and any measure of light worked with is in direct correlation within our own realm of ignorance, thus the more ignorance the more potential for light/awareness.

Are the modern association with the colors, the same association as in ancient times?

Yes i do remember the media reporting that, and I am a bit concerned of the use of that situation as an example, knowing that it is in fact not the case and a miss quote which has been promoted by the western media.

Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel ‘Must Be Wiped Off the Map’

In a reminder that Persian rhetoric is not always easy for English-speakers to interpret, a senior Israeli official has acknowledged that Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, never actually said that Israel “must be wiped off the map.”

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/?_r=0

Again this is based on modern perception of prophacy, which i think is quite dangerous, knowing how limited the vision of man currently is.

Personaly i also think a distorted perception of prophacy is delebritly promoted, to fullfull a man made script within the narrow visions of certain groups thinking.

Hence the battle against awareness, once the masses can view the picture in contrast to a brigther light, it will reveal a different picture, one that is not favable to the powers that be, because they will lose influance within some of there control systems, another words there pictures will become obsolete!

Perception is key! And it seems to be tightly controlled within a lot of religious circles., and it also seems Iran has been singled out for perception distortion, to create a negative picture within the minds of the masses, a false threat so to speak examples of which i have already shown.

Love an light brother

14

Hi Ra,
The original Israelite origins of much of the “western” peoples is a matter of archeological and anthropological record. Prophecy has not been twisted or badly interpreted. The Jewish sources that state these facts are both ancient and modern This is not Brittish Israelitism.
May I point you to the works of a close friend of mine, and much learned scholar in Yerushalyim, one Yair Davidy, and his work “The Tribes”, a copy of which I may well be able to find for you if you want one.
The Patriarch Ya’akov (Jacob) prophesied what, and where, the descendants of his twelve sons would be in the acharit hiyamim, the “last days”, and this has indeed been borne out by history, if you know what the keys of identification are to the various tribal groups.
As you know, Keltic peoples did indeed make it to the “ends of the earth” long before the Maori, as was prophesied by Ya’akov, and also by the G-d of Israel Himself, no matter who that being was, or is, His words were indeed borne witness too by history. The Kelts come from the Cymri, who came from descendants of the exiled Ten Tribes that inhabited the northern kingdom of Y’srael, as apposed to Y’hudah and Binya’min, who inhabited the Southern kingdom of Y’hudah, and were not taken captive by the Asyrians, as prophesied by Yeshsayahu (Isiah) Yermiyahu ( Jeremiah), and other minor prophets of the time.

You may not give any credence to Hebrew prophecy, or you may, nevertheless, I have studied the prophets long and hard, and they are proven always %100 correct, they kinda had to be anyway, if they wanted to see old age.
The Jews are the only ancient people to return to their homeland after 2000 years in exile, this too, was foretold by the prophets. As was the eventual ingathering, and resettling of the Northern tribes, in their ancient homeland also. As it is written, “Yahweh watches over His words, to perform them”.
People can think as they will, what is known, cannot always be fully explained, or even put into words, but they who know, know, and have their eyes open to the future, and their mouths silent to the present.
Listen closely, and you will hear the beating of hooves, getting louder by the day.
Love and light to you ehoa.

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Thanks Sha’ul, I would love to read his work

In regards to my previous remarks

“Again this is based on modern perception of prophecy, which i think is quite dangerous, knowing how limited the vision of man currently is.”

My point here was, that if man does not yet see clearly, how can he say such and such a picture or vision of prophecy is 100% correct?

The danger that i foresee is that individuals exposed to certain perceptions of prophecy, will find ways to validate there perception, or be complacent when events happen that correlate to there expectation, ie ,if a nuke fell on Iran, they will simple say, it was meant to happen! it is destiny!, some individuals could see it as a license to kill, in the name of prophecy, ultimately in the name of there god, based on the way that they interpret prophecy.

But what if, and i am only saying what if, they got it wrong?

Then you get thousands if not millions of people being killed for what, mans own misinterpretation/blindness?

An other thing i would like to mention regarding prophecy is that a lot apparently was clocked in symbolism, again there are many interpretations of what the symbols mean. But i notice a lot of people look for physical manifestations, when i suspect the actual events a lot of the prophecy talks about actually happens within the spiritual realm.

For example the rebuilding of the 3rd temple, and if i may quote the kolbrin here

"The true temples of the Great God are not structures of stone and brick. They are places of quietude in your heart and home where you listen to the awakening of your soul as it responds to the conscious contact with Him. His worship is your labour among the people. His praise is the song in your heart. His adoration is your joy of living.

Kolbrin

Possibly adds a whole new perception to the 3rd temple prophecy in my opinion, anyway something to think about :slight_smile:

Again this comes down to perception, there are some that say that those that returned have nothing to do with the original that left.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Koestler13thTribe.htm

Interesting what the above site says about Jesus, reminds me of what Laraine mentioned to me about the white pahana and a apparent relationship to Maori(will discuss in future more on the Maori tradition thread) :slight_smile:

Kia ora sha’ul

16

Shalom Ra,
Respectfully my brother, you are way out of your depth regarding Hebrew prophecy and its interpretation.
There are VERY strict rules that apply, and the general rule is that prophecy is only true, when it has been borne out by its fruit in fulfilment. Although, when given by a proven prophet, it is taken for granted that the words will come to pass.
Hebrew prophecy need not be “interpreted” as you say, as Hebrew is its original language, it doesn’t loose any meaning in translation, and there are very specific spiritual and physical archetypes that are used, that have defined meanings within the realm of Hebrew language and Biblical prophecy.
Try as you may, but 2000 years of Christian attempts to “spiritualise” Hebrew prophecy has not been a good guide for them, nor has it proved accurate.
Ie, when Yahweh says B’nei Y’srael (children of Israel) He means the descendants of the patriarch Ya’acov (Jacob) and nobody else, not “The Church”.
When Yahweh says Eretz Y’srael (land of Israel) he means the land that He foreswore to Ya’akov (Jacob) and his descendants, wich the State of Israel today, only covers about 1/3 of. Look in the back of a Bible for the map of Biblical Israel.
When Yahweh says that he will bring back, even with a “hook in the nose” both houses, Israel and Judah, to inhabit again the land He foreswore to their fathers Avraham Yitzhak and Ya’akov, that is what He means, nothing spiritual, but a physical return of their descendants to that particular geographic place.
So far, prophecy, Biblical prophecy, in Hebrew, has been borne out %100 correct in its timing, and physical attributes of fulfilment, and I have no reason to believe this will change anytime soon.
There is of course much the prophets do not say, prophecy in the Biblical sense, having mainly to do with the purpose and destiny of the Hebrew Nation.
Some of the terms of reference, names of G-d, and names of Nations, may be different according to perception by other national groups and spiritual agencies, but nevertheless, it will come to pass, as it is written, so it shall be done.
There is much misplaced jealousy amongst some spiritual types, of the Jewish people, our connection to history, our covenant with Yahweh, whatever your thoughts on His real identity may be, and on the fact that we are the original, from wich the other two great religeons took their cue.
Being a Jew, is not easy, not popular, and not much fun for most of our history. Conversion to Judaism is not recommended, unless one actually has Jewish roots, with this comes natural affinity for the very strict and self controlled way of life required of one partaking of the covenant of Israel. It is a beautiful path, but not an easy one.
We have suffered much, to hold onto the knowledge, and covenant entrusted to us by our ancestors, and we do not guard it jealously as others would, but keep it to share with those of genuine intent.
Also, there exists no Jewish body, that oversees the fulfilment of prophetic sayings, these cme to pass on their own accord, by a kind of natural karmic cycle, how the prophets themselves saw what they did, is for others of deeper spiritual awareness than myself to say, but I would guess that they were somehow taken forward in time, and shown the events as they will unfold, as they unfolded, and then brought back to their own time again, somewhat awestruck, one would imagine.
The 3rd temple in mens hearts you say ? I would beg to differ, how can mens hearts be measured ? how can they descend from the sky and land on the the Temple Mt ? how can they be shaped like a Pyramid ?
This field of study alone, the 3rd temple, is deeper than I could even begin to explain to you Ra, it takes years of study first in Hebrew, T’nach, Kabbalah, and other various spiritual disciplines before anybody would even take you seriously enough to start teaching you what this is about, but at P’shat (surface) level, it means physically exactly what it says. Yes, there will be spiritual elements to the prophetic fulfilment, but the P’shat level fulfilment, the immediate physical fulfilment, is to be taken literally.

Interesting you mention the doubt some spread about the genetic relationship of the modern Jew to the ancient Hebrews. Actually, the genetic line is there for all to see, the Kohen gene is a fact revisionists hate.
Genetics has also proven that all Jews, that is actually Jews from a hereditary Jewish family line, descend from the same original forefather, and foremother, wonder who they could be ?
I am wondering what leis behind your comments Ra ?
Another thing you might want to consider, is learning Hebrew, for only then, can you actually judge in reality, what the prophets are saying, even at surface level.
I cant find the book I meantioned anywhere, maybe I loaned it out already, but if you are interested, even from a critical point of view, I suggest maybe a visit to the Brit Am Israel website, much to read on all these subjects there. NZ is mentioned quite a lot. If you have trouble finding the site, here is a link.

Wishing you love, and light.

http://www.britam.org/

17

Thanks again Shaul, I am glad you have a sound knowledge of Hebrew prophecy.

Sha’ul, I have noticed what you are saying, and i have looked from both perspectives in different matters, not because i choose any side, but because i want to see the point of view, in saying that i have come to realise that that is the main and only difference a lot of the times, its just the point of view, both sides are often right, depending on where they are standing.

I must admit, that this has made me hesitant in conversing with you on such matters, knowing that it could easily be categorised into one side of the two camps, not by choice but by previous entrenched views enforced by previous encounters with other conflicting views.

Try me bro, I think I could pick it up the foundation concepts fairly quickly, considering my ancient heritage and the relationship it has with your ancestors, there is a lot of ancient spiritual knowledge I could claim heritage too via deep roots, if I had the audacity to do such.

In regards to the physical and spiritual, there is a principle/law where the spiritual comes first in everything. So for any physical event, rest assured that before that event, there was a spirit that enabled that event to happen, unseen by the eyes of men, yet detectable via the eyes of the spirit.

If you had a Pyramid in symbolic terms of mind body and soul, the heart could well be the centre point.

I was thinking more that the 3rd temple will be built within an individual the coming messiah, each brick and stone a hard earned truth for its foundation, filled with great pearls and gems of wisdom.

And measured with a toe line that is true, a true balance between mind body and soul, and proven by the structure built(temple) within the heart.

That will shine with such great radiance, that those with spiritual eyes will recognise it for what it is, he/she will then teach this tow line foundation to others by example, and it will able to validated the principles via ancient geometric symbols.

Thanks for the link shaul, i have studied that link quite considerable years ago, and even posted quotes from the website in a research thread regarding New Zealand and the land of sinim. I like his research, but I see even older connections then the ones that he has mentioned, these older connections change the picture considerably.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1682263/pg1

It is this that is behind my comments friend, i suspect there are more correlations and relationships than meets the eye, hence my eagerness to press and probe you, sometime subtle sometimes not. A good way to do that is to test your truths, if your sword is strong my questioning only serves to strengthen it, if not, then my questioning will help to show where you are lacking, and vice versa, either way there are positives we can both take away from this :slight_smile:

I must say thou, I have been holding back a lot, partly because I know you will disagree, but I need to show more courage in my own truth and understanding, if we disagree, then we disagree, and we can agree to disagree about certain matters.

love and light bro