Society and the Individual Overcoming Darkness

Well these are the things I am talking about, all these struggles regarding our past and how they haunt us and makes us distrust each other. While there are people like you and many others making an effort to overcome these issues, I guess one cannot deny that they are far from solved. I am sure there's plenty of other factors contributing the the inability of people to come together in a more cohesive way in their communities though.

Well, if I might dare to comment…
I feel that at this time, there are many cycles coming to and end, and a new beginning.
Natural cycles, Karmic cycles, both of races, and individuals, as well as religious systems .Cultural and Moral cycles…whatever cycle you are on, it feels to me like it is coming to a head, to an end.
To what end, or to what result, portents this mass cyclic vector, of sorts ?
Do we reach this point before the "restart " button is pushed each cycle ?
According to the Kolbrin, it does seem so…
And afterwards, what ? We like to think we would be building some kind of utopia…that we would have learned our lessons, and wouldn’t make the same mistakes again…
But have we yet ?
How many "cycles have we completed, where the moral few, have watched chaos ensue around them as their societies plunged into an immoral downward spiral, knowing that the “judgement” was soon to come.
Afterwards, did they build a better society ?
If they did, what happened to it, how did we get to where we are now, once again at the brink ?
Do we never learn ?

This might sound angry. I’m not angry. Just trying to say it like it is. I just accept things as they are, and I shake my head at myself and at my own behavior more than I’d like to admit in print.

I don’t see Utopia ever being something of earth. Perfection isn’t a quality of earth. I think that trying to build such a thing here is foolish wishful thinking. Yes, we would like to think it though, and we do, and we deceive ourselves into thinking that people can change, and everyone will get along and the lion lays with the lamb, blah blah blah. Women should change, and then men will change, and then the family will change, and then the dog won’t chase the cat, and there won’t be any more whores, no more men raping women, no stealing, no more war, no more starvation, not a cloud in the sky, and people will stay married and we’ll all be vegetarians, and we wake up each day to the sun shining and we sing a song while we go about our work. hmmm.

We already know the lessons, we just choose to ignore them. We have to stop accepting behavior we know to be wrong. I mean the behavior of men, women, children, leaders, neighbors, dogs, cats, the pet bird that bites…everyone and everything. We have to stop making excuses for those that do hurtful things, and things we know will lead to more pain down the road for everyone concerned. Knowing how far one can push the envelope as to what others around you will accept is a learned behavior, taught by those who allow it. Stop allowing it and refuse to accept it and things will change for the better. It will never be perfect, and it isn’t easy. It’s not meant to be easy, nor will it ever be all flowers and spice and everything nice. Things will always happen that aren’t real pretty, and you’ll have to be tough and remember the lessons you already know. Remember them, think! Listen to that little voice in your head. We are all guilty of being overly forgiving, and making excuses for others and things around us.

It’s story time again…:slight_smile: I have an acquaintance who’s been going though a learning experience, I’ll call her Beth. A few years ago Beth’s grown son committed suicide. He left behind a wife and 3 children. Beth took to drinking more heavily than she did before her son’s death. She now drinks a 30 pack, (30 beers) a night. The widow of the son now relies on Beth for support, and also spends a great deal of time at Beth’s with the children. Young widow, hasn’t moved beyond the pain, and wallows in the past. The oldest, fatherless child is now 14. A few months ago this boy, (we’ll call him Bobby), was brought up on charges of molesting his cousin in Beth’s house. Impossible! He wouldn’t have done that! Right? He beat most of the charges. Now Bobby just made the headlines of our local paper, (name withheld because of his age) for shooting a BB Gun at the school bus. Not once, but on 2 different occasions, second time he shattered the window in a full bus of children, the youngest in the bus was only 6 years old. Maybe he’s acting out because he was falsely accused the first time around? Possible, but it still does not excuse shooting a bus full of kids.

Beth, (Grandma), got a knock on the door at 10:00 at night, awoken from her drunken stupor by the police department. “Do you own a BB Gun? We think Bobby shot the school bus.” NO, we don’t own a BB gun, and Bobby would never shoot the school bus. hmmm Bobby confessed to the police within 48 hours and the BB Gun was taken from Beth’s house. Bobby’s little brother swore to Grandma Beth, (pinky swear) no less, that Bobby didn’t do it. OK, hmmmm lies compound more lies, and why would she be surprised that the grandchildren lie to her? really? ok

Beth isn’t mad at him. She says it’s alright that Bobby lied to her, and it’s because his father committed suicide that the child is acting out. My advise…Dear Beth, GET MAD AT HIM! Get really mad at him. Shun him, make him feel the pain himself for the pain he’s caused others. Beth is no shining example for the child, but no one is teaching him to be responsible for his OWN actions. Yes, he’s had a tough life, indeed. Everything sks around him. But that doesn’t make it ok to do the things he’s been doing. It’s a cycle, it will happen again and again and again, and then he’ll have children, and again the children won’t be to blame, it will be because of the father, or the father of the father. Maybe it will be the mothers fault, maybe she’ll mess around a man or temp one into having sex with her. So that’s where it all went bad. hmmm ok moving on.

When we hear stories of how a thief was punished by having his hand cut off, we all cringe in horror. That’s pretty harsh I know. But if you told the thief, it’s ok, you can’t help yourself, you poor stupid idiot…the thief will steal your life savings when your back is turned. No, he didn’t change by you being compassionate. It doesn’t work like that. Things won’t change here either by spreading “love”. Gotta get over that, good vibe, forgiveness, light and love nonsense. It’s not love or light or compassion that allows these things to continue, nor will it stop them from happening. It’s lazy, weak stupidity, and distracting oneself from reality. In Beth’s case reality evaporates in the 30 pack of beer every night. In others it’s that illusion that we could live in a Utopia, if only people will “change”.

We make the change every day by being strong and speaking up and using the word NO, that is unacceptable…period. Utopia, never, but we can make life here more worth living and enjoying. I’m guilty in my own life of the same things I’m speaking of…we want to believe the lies. I don’t know anyone who’s above being human. But we can strive to be better examples for the next generation. yes?

This link below will seem like it has nothing to do with my above post. But it’s a step by step guide in how to build a community. It’s very interesting. It’s a little boring, but it makes a lot of sense. Enjoy!

The Community Survival Plan Slide Show

Diane, sister,
Its ok to be angry, it is quite justified.
Makes me angry too.
Great post.
Shalom to you.

That means you are self aware to a much higher degree than the average. Most people don’t care to know or admit unhealthy thought or action, and quite often they take pride and revel in it. Yet you do improve by being aware of your behavior, especially by working to correct damaging behavior. If you can see your own self improvement through these thoughts and actions, where does it lead? Is there a point at which you cannot improve anymore? Is there a point at which no amount of discipline and awareness on your part can overcome a particular flaw? My answer to that is no, but I would be most interested to learn why if you feel otherwise. If you (anyone reading this) cannot affect family or society in the way you see is healthiest, work on improving yourself until you can; not so much worrying over the fate of Earth, for she will still be here set on one cycle or another, but more for your soul. For you do not graduate from or leave your soul at death the way you can Earth. You cannot leave or run from yourself, but only bury yourself deeper in the mire; or struggle upwards and out of it, slowly finding ‘utopia’ within. What can be manifested within is expressed without. As above, so below.

Ultimate perfection cannot be reached on Earth. This state is reached on another plane of existence. However, and again, do you know what the limits to which we cannot improve anymore here? Until you can tell me the point at which either you individually or we societally cannot improve anymore, or have reached the highest states of advancement here on Earth, the above paragraph would smack as being defeatist, not realistic or telling it like it is. For when you make your list of society not having whores, or rape, or war, or starvation, I can point you to well documented examples in history of societies eliminating one or more of those evils. And if it has been done in history, it means it can be done by us. That it is believed not possible shows either a lack in the knowledge of history, a lack of understanding in the Lessons of the Mastery of Life, or a heavy weighted despondency which temporarily blocks clear sight of those same Lessons.

This statement is true at a certain level, but from a mundane perspective it is misleading and inaccurate. Some people know the lessons, but ignore them. Some people know the lessons, but don’t understand them, or why they should be followed. Some people understand some of the lessons, but not other lessons. Some people neither know nor understand hardly any of the lessons. And other people still know and understand the lessons, but struggle putting them into effect, or get lazy.

(Earth is a harsh mistress, however, and strikes varying degrees of teaching blows in proportion to the level, ability, and awareness of the student or class being taught each particular lesson; or what can be taught patiently with gentleness in the child is severely dealt with in the youth and even fatally with the adult. At which point, the decision must be made to continue suffering or worse, or learn the lesson and advance.)

What should also be considered is that there has been deliberate and successful attempts to remove the very knowledge of these lessons/laws, or to deny them as being obsolete. Aleister Crowley’s most famous and central utterance, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law” has now become the central tenant and philosophy of the average Westerner.

(Sad, because the statement is a contradiction in terms. Freedom of and choice of will is not Law by any definition, but a Right, a subjective characteristic of all sovereign individuals. A Law is an objective characteristic of nature or the universe, always constant in reaction to the movement or action of subjective bodies. Thus we see an elementary failure in primary logic become the primary philosophic tenant in modern society, successfully promoted and delivered to the public on many overt and subvert levels since Crowley’s day; an attempted confusing or erasure in the knowledge of actual Law, not always clearly seen, with the self evident Right that feels good but loses all notion of consequence. )

And Diane, I very much agree with the rest of your post and your commentary of ‘Beth’. Thank you also for the video, it contains some very useful primary information on community preparedness! :slight_smile:

That depends on the individual or group in question. Some graduate or shift to a higher or different type of school, some are held back, and others still are dropped to a more elementary class to relearn forgotten or ignored Lessons in a more primary setting.

‘Restarts’ are generally initiated after a prolonged stagnancy of growth, where Earthly conditions are not fulfilling their intended purpose on a functional level.

Every generation must learn for itself again the Lessons of their parents and ancestors. Some do, some do not. If they do not, societal devolution ensues, which can and has been reversed. Better societies than this have been built, and worse ones. Better societies than ours (going back even unto the Ages of Legends and Myths), have failed in key aspects or have gone stagnant or devolved. And there is still the chance for us to go Higher still than they in our current cycle… a crossroads still lays before us. Even in the worse of outcomes, all is not lost but begun again with the seeds of past lessons… or, societal reincarnation.

Entire societies and other spheres of Soulspirits must cycle and reincarnate no differently than the individual, and ultimately for a better end and purpose.

:slight_smile: Aleister Crowley doesn’t deserve any time or effort on my part. Just had to say that, sometimes I can’t help myself.

Len, you always impress me with your use of the English language, insight, knowledge and reason. You would be amazing to be around in the real world, and probably one of the very best influences someone like myself could have in their life. Had to say that too. I’ve been away too long. As always I try to work things out alone, and it’s difficult to accept that I do need others to help me do that. So independent, and stubborn I can be.

I would ask for examples in history where this type of environment has been accomplished on Earth, by what means/methods were used to get to that point, and the duration of time these periods lasted. Have I missed something along the way or have purposely blocked something due to my negative outlook? Most import are the methods. Just a student, as always. I won’t use the words, “I hope”, what you say is true, nor will I, “wish”, what you’re saying to be true. But by you giving a real example in documented history could lead to a path and goal that would be inspiring for me right now.

I do agree with Len’s statement that Earth will remain and that the purpose is to do work on ourselves most of all (which btw is actually the only thing we can actually do. Influencing others is a worthy endeavor but not guaranteed to succeed in most cases). The problem though is when society descends into such chaos that the external begins to interfere with the internal work we’re trying to achieve. The Kolbrin has some interesting chapters that deal with total collapse of society (Panubis in Manuscripts being a good example) and how it disrupts civilized existence and the possibility for people to work on themselves inwardly. However it must also be noted that these times of forced stress and disruption force societies to work on the external, more physical issues which sometimes they may have disregarded due to complacency. It’s a way that life has to put you back on track when a society’s ideological wanderings have strayed too far off the actual, solid Laws that regulate (or should regulate) life on Earth and thus human societies as well.

The external always impinges in the internal here. The question is how one reacts to it. Times of societal chaos are only greater tests and give each a chance to really prove how much one has mastered themselves in the face of adversity. Even in peaceful times, there are countless examples in cultural history of artificially induced stresses which push people to rise above pain, stress, and adversity. Certain sects in India still do this with the well known example of the bed of nails, among many other lesser known tests. Certain yogis undergoing invasive surgery have refused anesthetics, controlling breath and heart rate while calmly having discussions with the surgeon under the knife. The anthropological record shows a wide array of rites to manhood which forces the youth to endure pain, deprivation, isolation, and other tests. Esoteric training by more advanced civilizations in the past have gone to even greater extremes to gain inner mastery, whatever the external conditions. For those that want this type of inner mastery and control, it can be had for the price of hard work, focus and discipline.

Diane, thank you for your most complimentary words above. They honor and humble me. As for being around in the ‘real world’, you never know, we may just find an excuse to get together some day. :wink:

And yes, we do all need each other for our continued mutual learning and growth.

You are asking for an entire book here, Diane, or perhaps a series of books. :stuck_out_tongue:

What I can do for you is begin to point you to certain fields of studies. Once you are familiar with the information and research, we can begin to discuss the whys and hows and particulars.

Below are three books which research the historical and anthropological questions of war and violence, the first of which details over 60 societies which have all but eliminated war, violence, and or crime. The final link is a website devoted to this question, and will further help your research. When you get puzzled over the particulars or would like to discuss specifics, please feel free to create new threads here which we may discuss.

A map of nonviolent and non warring cultures from the first book:

An excellent web compendium of the subject:

I too am back.
Love and light to all.

Manuel, that was awesome. So good, I’ve read it over and over a few times.

Len, after reading through the links and the book reviews, etc. I just have this feeling we’re on the same page, and I’m just not expressing my feelings properly. I was thinking more in terms of a “whole world” of a Utopian Like Society. Wasn’t really thinking in terms of scattered small communities and their ability to achieve a peaceful society.

I peeped through the links you shared other day. Did a little copy paste to my my notes…sharing.

Human Potential For Peace. “Douglas P. Fry shows how anthropology--with its expansive time frame and comparative orientation--can provide unique insights into the nature of war and the potential for peace. Challenging the traditional view that humans are by nature primarily violent and warlike, Professor Fry argues that along with the capacity for aggression humans also possess a strong ability to prevent, limit, and resolve conflicts without violence. “
Archaeology Of Warfare by Elizabeth N. Arkush ”Archaeological research dispels the myth of a peaceful past and demonstrates the sobering fact that war played a greater role in human prehistory than previously thought. These detailed regional case studies from leading archaeologists show the inextricable web of warfare and other social institutions and highlight their complex co-evolution in pre-state and early state societies.” ...

”These essays explore the development of warfare in preindustrial, non-Western societies, addressing why some societies fight endemic wars while others do not and how frequent warfare affects the basic choices people make about where to live, whom to fight, on whom to confer power, and how to form social groups.”

Peaceful Societies Org. DISCLAIMER: While scholars have clearly identified a small number of societies in which people rarely act aggressively, it must be emphasized that no stamp of approval is intended for the societies included in this website. None of them are utopias. ...

APPROACHES TO PEACEFULNESS: Most of the nonviolent peoples have a wide range of strategies for promoting interpersonal harmony, building mutual respect, and fostering toleration for individual differences. Many of them are masters at devaluing conflicts, minimizing and resolving them when they do occur, and preventing them from developing into violence. Many of these peaceful societies also devalue competition, self-focus, and other ego-centered social behaviors that they feel might lead to violence.

I’m on the same page with all of those. I live near the Amish, (as I’ve mentioned before), who’re a fairly good example and I believe they’re mentioned on the Peaceful Society Org website. I can see it, I understand how it can be done in small groups with a lot of discipline. Yes it can be done, has been done etc. I just have not found where it was ever done globally.

Now that being said…The Raymond Kelley Book, “Warless Societies and the Origin of War” appears to hold the views that we were once peaceful and then became more warlike. That might be the one to read to see just how much we differ in our opinions. I wasn’t really thinking about war, as much as I was thinking that our capacity for aggressive behavior has always been there. Maybe there was a time where there wasn’t really anything to War over. Still doesn’t rule out aggression. Might have to read that one.

Actually, a number of the societies, past and present, mentioned in those books do rule out aggression. I suggest you become more familiar with the anthropological and sociological record.

As for capacity for aggressive behavior, that is always present. (Known as free will.) It is simply a matter of individuals and societies learning to channel that energy in more constructive ways. You can learn about many of these methods by studying the societies mentioned, although, there are more methods than these even that are effective.

I’m not sure what you’re looking for here, Diane, as there has never been a society in recorded history that has included all the peoples’ of Earth. (Even in unrecorded prehistory, there was not one single society that enveloped all mankind!) There have been small, medium, and big societies that lasted short and long durations, but never an all encompassing one. Even with a more integrated global mankind today, there are divisions of custom, government, religion, mores, lifestyle, etc. Creating a “one world” society as you mention would be quite the frightening and dangerous prospect, not to mention bland and lacking diversity.

My point was that the list of evils you mentioned are and have been overcome by many, many societies… and that is just what is recorded, not mentioning the ones from the deep past!!! :wink:

As for ‘Utopia’, there have been some that have gotten close… but then they no longer need to be here, just as individuals achieving a near inner ‘Utopia’ no longer need to return to Earth.

Community… It has become a meaningless word for many. What happened? 100 years ago most people knew most of the people in their lives for their lifetime. Now the opposite is true. We are all acquainted with strangers who come and go. Long term friends, neighbors are rare. Is it an accident? Being born must hurt. Maybe this is what it takes for humanity to learn that our neighborhood is pretty big. The town, or block or neighborhood even family… it’s fragmented. Maybe we have to feel isolated to recognize the bigger picture. Maybe you have to go from not knowing anyone to be able to see that you know everyone. One day maybe the spirit soul in everyone will look out and see the mirrors in everyone. I cannot fix the world. My small influence doesn’t have much reach. So I take it one thing at a time. When in line at the supermarket I look at people. If someone behind me has one or two items I invite them to go ahead. Some decline. So then I insist and ask “how are you?” More often than not people wake up a little. If it feels right I might say “funny how people don’t talk to each other” it might start a conversation. I wave to the other car at stop signs. And every now and then I meet someone who talks. And they realize how much we share. We all have so much in common. I will say “helping each other, and try to make things a little better. Be kind and compassionate, to yourself first but to everyone.” If it is going really good, I say “share this conversation, with two people and tell them to share it too, and pretty soon everything will start getting better”. I am only one but if enough people started to share and listen to people in their world one by one things will get better. I think people know it works but we all forget. The conditioned fear is pervasive, it is everywhere to create a downward social pressure. I think more and more people realize it is a created reality. If I am wasting my time it’s okay. I will try anyway andwhen I see someone’s day get a little better I am happy. Some days I don’t want to go out of the house. That day it’s time for to be kind to tim, to relax and try to find something bothering me that I can do something about. If so, when I feel better I might do it. I’ll keep trying. Maybe someone will give me a better way to help. I would listen and maybe give it a try. I’d rather go down fighting if humanity is destined to lose. But victory might be possible. We would have to believe it is possible first. I think Gandi said … “no matter what you do, it is likely to be insignificant. But it is very important that you do it.”

I think everything you have done so far Tim is Great! Insignificant? Not at all. You see, the people that you give a spark to, mentally - spiritually - emotionally, will reflect that in some small way to their families and everyone they meet and work with. Often this spark just dies out after a short time due other outside pressures handled poorly, but just as often it is like a seed. If what they feel you shared was good, they will want to nurture that plant and grow it with others. The more people you touch, make smile, think, spark initiative… the greater number of people they will do the same with. It is a compounding effect.

By touching just one can effect thousands or millions. And just by watching your own work you can see the ripples of positive energy literally wash over the people around you and how they even begin to treat each other differently. :wink:

Just takes some awareness and practice…