Society and the Individual Overcoming Darkness

Manuel and I were having a private conversation which led into him wishing to discuss how we are going to solve some of the major problems in the world that plague us, and may even threaten to topple civilization as we know it. What follows between Manuel and I is an excerpt of that conversation. (I begin by commenting on a lyric to a song that is in quotes):

I approve (of the song), except…

“Waiting till shades are gone”

This is not something one can simply wait on, unless you plan on waiting a long time indeed…

The Light and the Shade are within. Like the savage without fire, he will remain in darkness and cold until he works at creating the spark, and working that spark into a small flame, and that small flame into a bonfire…

And his descendents work to master the “light” of nuclear fission and fusion…

And their descendants have the light of the stars on command…

So it is within.

“Waiting” only atrophies the savage, until he is finally beast again.

Yes good observation

I was meaning to make a post about what folks think could be the solution for these confusing times we find ourselves nowadays

but i wasn’t sure how to phrase it

since that savage making a spark and discovering how to start a fire we’ve come to such perplexing times now

i find that even some of my hardcore beliefs about economics and politics need to be reshaped to meet some of the challenges coming ahead

simply because technology is changing everything

demographics as well

we face strong challenges in the short term

There is no simple solution… it will be a multifaceted approach.

But all this cannot be accomplished without mastering our own inner natures. While all the other things, like politics and economics and technology must be addressed, they are peripheral to inner mastery and following the golden rule. This is where the bulk of my focus lies.

And that’s one thing I respect about the savage… nature made a man out of him, we could use a little more of that today.

We shared this private conversation with you guys, because neither Manuel nor myself can fix the world alone. It will be many of us together. So, please chime in to share your thoughts on what you can do, or what should be done.

Yeah feel free to chime in. I honestly foresee a schism between people who believe in transhumanism and those who believe we should stick closer to nature. I guess the system's inertia right now is to go full throttle towards the transhumanist paradigm. But that seems to clash right against demographics and the wealth imbalance that exists in the world nowadays....

Actually, I believe we should be closer to nature with a “transcendental” approach (notice – not transhuman.) Rooting ourselves to the tests and lessons and spirit of nature without going “primitive”. (Details to follow if there is interest.)

Manuel – “I guess the system’s inertia right now is to go full throttle towards the transhumanist paradigm. But that seems to clash right against demographics and the wealth imbalance that exists in the world nowadays…”

Well, if I were a transhumanist, and wished to solve that problem, I would be working on population culling or eugenics schemes of all sorts… Something to ponder from the other side…

Well I think the "big players" in the global scene have been trying to find ways to introduce eugenics in ways that people won't notice for a while now. The issue is that while we may be heading towards transhumanism, there will be a transition period in which a lot of people may end up being laid off from service jobs (which have become the only manner of subsistence for much of the masses) and that is something that will be quite hard to tackle.

With an attitude of dependency on big industry and big government, it will be quite hard to tackle, especially as even neighbors hardly know each other anymore.

People can create self perpetuating economies even in small towns, if they learn to talk to one another, and become determined to work on what they are best at and servicing their neighbors’ needs.

This is how economies are formed in the first place, but we have become so disconnected with the reality of it, that we don’t know how it works anymore.

It begins with people and a division of labor. Serving what your fellow man needs in exchange for what you need. Today, this is done unconsciously, without warmth. If we start to change this in our communities, we will bring back meaning to them once again… and rediscover our own power without the unconscious dependence.

So how about a little more self industry and self government from each of us (initiative and responsibility) with those around us?

With this attitude, most disasters can be overcome with minimal chaos, and will allow a continuity of civilization even if the rest of the world comes crashing down.

Whose community will be the example for the rest of us…? It could be yours.

I agree. Community is key, we've become too used to centralization nowadays and that disconnects people from their own responsibility and part in the whole scheme of society. Good thinking there. Getting this across to the masses is another story however.

Of course example as you say would be key

It seems people are going away from human communities and heading more towards drone hives…

As you say…

Spreading word is not nearly as good as example. What can you personally do to serve or create? Starting businesses, forming partnerships, farming, learning in groups to learn once again how to live off the land… we can become masters of our own destinies from right where we live.

Spread word to the leaders (not necessarily politicians, but those who are self starters and visionaries), those that can comprehend and initiate what is possible. The “masses”, those that cannot see a way forward with words will understand and follow by your very action and in what you create.

Just a few communities like this will be a like a massive inoculation with the potential to spread system wide.

There are some people trying this though but it seems they struggle with it and don't really get enough momentum. I mean so many people complain of GMO's in food and the likes yet they have ways available to them to grow their own food, and join financially to buy common gardens to care for collectively with neighbors and share the food. I mean there are ways to go off grid and live a more rewarding life but I guess it's what you say about people not really being in touch in their communities. That's another problem that surely must have some root cause, maybe cultural even.

What makes people not really trust their neighbor and see them as possible partners in endeavors to make their communities better? maybe they don’t see their neighbor as someone compatible with themselves anymore? was this really different in the past or do we just idealize the past too much?

On a related subject :stuck_out_tongue:

People are not even ‘compatible’ with or ‘trust’ their own families or spouses any longer. If we cannot even keep a home, there is no chance of building or saving a kingdom.

Civilization lives and dies on the quality of relationships, first by the family, then by the community. Until “The Problem of Relationships” is solved, economic and political discussion is a moot point. Perhaps this is much of the reason why people attempting local, self-sustaining lifestyles fail or end up in isolation.

Keep an outline, in order of importance.

  1. Master, harmonize, and know yourself.

  2. Build a harmonious and loving family.

  3. Love your neighbors, and let them learn to trust you.

Further details can be implemented after implementing these first three…

Well I gotta say you are spot on in that assessment Len. I guess that's why our attempts to install complex political and economic systems to solve problems that stem from small issues like these you mention always end up utterly failing. I mean if your society is failing because of the lacking relationships between individuals then of what use is to try to legislate big laws to ban this and force that? Is that helping to build better relationships between people?

No, it is “passing the buck”, attempting to have someone else solve our problems, and in so doing, losing the vital lessons that failure brings. And failure’s lessons are often the most important.

That is how the universe works, there is always eventually equal balance and payment given and received. In not being allowed to fail, we are robbed of the lesson to even grow and learn. The pain of these failures and their subsequent lessons by themselves would be small, not hurting too bad, and allow us to grow at a measured and proportioned rate. But when you compile and attempt to mitigate all these failures and responsibilities for the world into one or a few gigantic and inhuman entities, you create VERY BIG problems for everyone, that will deliver a VERY BIG lesson… a failure and a lesson that is bigger than any one of us, and one that those who rely on the inhuman “machine” that we have built will suffer the brunt of.

The sad thing is, is that Lesson is so big, it won’t really even be learnt by those who paid for it.

It is not healthy to focus too much on the above though. Realize it for what it is and do what you have to do to transcend these things…

Great topic guys! For when I look into my children's eyes...I see hope! However, I strongly believe this hope must start with us...Because of what our father and their fathers have sewn ~ we are reaping. LET US be the ones to plant the seeds that reap a harvest of 'belonging'. LET US be the ones to start a fire that cannot be dowsed by mere tyranny. LET US be the ones that give without the expectation of receiving ~ so that others might have. I stood out in the -30 windchill last night thinking about George Washington and others that have stood in the gap for our freedom ~, and what the cost was for so many that didn't even have to die by the gun/sword, but just waited out in the cold to die for a cause that they truly believed in...We need to be those kind of people during these times and not expect others to fulfill our destiny...AND YET, ALL SOME DID WERE DIE OUT IN THE COLD ~ AND I THANK THEM FOR BEING SO BRAVE!

I think though it's important to note this issue about people having lost the sense of community. I see a lot of rupture between peoples, a lot of ancestral grudges, different groups struggling for influence. When a society is so ruptured from within can it really be mended? All the European colonies have a dark history and I think as much as they have tried to move on from it it's not letting go.
I'm German... 100%...point well taken! I spend my inter fiber of being killing who I am, and was. It's a beast to carry and is so much better recognized that it is there, and needs to be mastered ~ than to pretend it's not there ~ or to think that I can't overcome those roots and natural characteristics. I may have been born this way ~ but it's not who I AM!
I didn't meant it like that Tait. All peoples have committed atrocities during human history. The point I was trying to make is that right now it seems maybe that all these ancestral rivalries, not only between different nations and races, but between genders, religions and almost anything else you can think of, are coming up to the surface and creating more hostility between members of the different communities. It's also true that nations in the West are nowadays more diverse than ever and this may be causing frictions. Perhaps this is just a temporary adjustment period for societies or maybe it will lead to unending strife until there's a total schism. I do not know, but it may be related or a contributing factor at least to what Len mentioned about members of communities not being so open and trusting to each other. Also it may have nothing to do with it, and we're just over idealizing the past communities who may not have been as friendly and wonderful as we imagine them to have been. I am just throwing it out there.
Oh course I wonder what "the song" was Len and Manuel were talking about. :) Some people won't be able to change, ever. That's a hard truth that I think we have to face. Some may awaken, and that's always a time to celebrate.

I live near a family of Mennonites, (like more modernized Amish). They’re all about family and their community. They have a painted rock on the corner of their farm…it reads “Are you ready to meet God?”. In front of that is a stand where they sell baked goods and homemade pies etc, all year round, 6 days a week. Never on Sunday. Sunday is church and drive to see the other families, no work. They don’t stand there watching their baked goods stand. They trust you will put the money in the can for what you take.

We exchange gifts at Christmas. Not just with me, with “some” of the other neighbors too. They give me a loaf of homemade bread with a lovely handmade card, and I give them white dish cloths, (bar rags), wrapped in brown paper tied with jute cord and a homemade card. We both look forward to this exchange every year. Useful, needful things. It’s not so much the giving, as just seeing each other giving each other a hug and being thankful for each other and what we can do for each other.

We live completely different lives. But what we have is respect for each other. When they come over here during the warm weather either to hay the field or till our garden I cover my hair, and put on a long sleeved shirt, and wear at the very least long baggy pants. Basic rule-no bare legs arms, or uncovered hair, no colors like red or purple.

They do us a favor by haying the field. They get the hay, and it prevents overgrowth. If I want a bale of hay I buy it from them. I don’t expect them to give it to me because it was my field they hayed. Many can’t understand these simple rules of doing for each other. Just doesn’t register for some people.

I could go on forever with this. I admire that family very much. I know that feeling isn’t mutual. They do not admire us or what we have or do. They would see it as very, very foolish. We respect each other for our values of property, work ethics, how we treat each other. Must respect each other when it is deserved.

Thing is I think, “the community” is really still there. You might not see it until the bottom drops out. Maybe it’s not so much lost, but distracted. just thoughts…

Thanks for sharing that Diane. The striving towards community and family, or at least respecting each other's values and being civil and cordial, seem to be some of the cornerstones of a desirable civilization. However nowadays maybe due to the fact that we've grown to an amazing extent demographically and technologically we feel we're beyond the need for those things. Sort of like the Hobbit's shire in the Lord Of The Rings saga, who wouldn't like to live in such a nice community? Yet the only thing that stops people from achieving such agreeable communities are people themselves.
Sorry, Manuel, you misunderstood me and I knew I should have stated what I meant by being German...I'm arrogant ~ stubborn ~ thick skulled ~ and pretty much 'matter of fact' when it comes to my opinion! Not a race issue but a personality issue that has been pounded into me by my ancestors and the culture/environment in which I was brought up in. I didn't naturally hate ~ I was taught to hate. This is what I die to each and every day. I CHOOSE to break the chain that binds. I was taught to hate a man for his skin best friend since I'm 13 is black (of whom I have played in a band with for nearly 25 years). My grandparents said that children were to be seen and not heard ~ not only are my kids heard...I even listen! I CHOOSE to break the chain that binds. The quest starts with us and needs to be something that we set as a standard of living that others will find value in. I see my children being made better by own mistakes and by talking to them about them. I see the change in them already ~ and in this ~ I FIND HOPE! I see I'm making a change within myself and in the generation that is watching me...