hey buddy (Manu) is there a reference of the ''blue water lily'' that you know of?
I did a quick peep yesterday using keywords "blue water lily", "water lily", "Lily", to search my kindle for PC copy of the Kolbrin reprinted by old what's his name, Sheriff Minor somebody, rofl. I didn't find anything. But best check with Manuel.
The flowers of the Egyptian blue water-lily (N. caerulea) open in the morning and then sink beneath the water at dusk, while those of the Egyptian white water-lily (N. lotus) open at night and close in the morning. Egyptians found this symbolic of the separation of deities and of death and the afterlife. Remains of both flowers have been found in the burial tomb of Ramesses II.
Not that i recall of right now but there could be something alluding to it in there, it's a very extensive volume and small details like those are easily lost.
I was just wondering a guy said that there was a reference in the Kolbrin, how about lotus , I know what the lotus of creation is already.
"CRT:5:6 It was a fertile place, for out of the ground grew every kind of tree that was good for food and every tree that was pleasant to the sight. Every herb that could be eaten and every herb that flowered was there. The Tree of Life, which was called Glasir, having leaves of gold and copper, was within the Sacred Enclosure. There, too, was the Great Tree of Wisdom bearing the fruits of knowledge granting the choice and ability to know the true from the false. It is the same tree, which can be read as men read a book. There also was the Tree of Trespass, beneath which grew the Lotus of Rapture, and in the centre was The Place of Power, where God made His presence known."
“SCL:21:9 Having an affinity with You, my soul knows You and rejoices in the knowledge. It hears You and is at peace. It opens in response to Your warmth as the lotus and awakens softly as the day opens its eye to the night. My soul knows what I know not.”
“SCL:29:1 The night rolls back to reveal the promise of another day. The great sun comes up in the morning time, and the lotus opens to reveal its shining heart displayed in devotion. You come, and my heart leaps up from my breast to meet you.”
Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but it was nice to read the words again anyway.
check the "brew" the Egyptian Kings took while in the pyramid conducting the "twice Born One" ritual. its one of the ingredients. its not mentioned by the name of "blue Water Lily" though, you have to research the chemical make up of the lily (DMT) and the affect this "brew" had on the Kings. the lily had a narcotic affect by either inhaling it or letting it soak in wine then drinking the wine (as in the ritual) the affect is exactly the same. great group by the way!!
Welcome to the group Mike.
I will have to dispute your claim about DMT as an ingredient in the Twice Born ritual. Three points for your consideration: One, the Twice Born ritual has been carried out over long periods of time throughout different geographic areas. Some of these areas have no DMT containing plants.
Two, DMT metabolizes in the body extraordinarily quickly. In a situation where the body lies prostate and paralyzed, and is isolated and sensory deprived over a period of some days would make it literally impossible for an external DMT source to provide the requisite, long-lasting effect for this particular ritual. In other words, no DMT based brew can last as long as the Twice Born ritual takes to complete, and there is no way for it to be continually supplied throughout the duration of the ritual.
Three, DMT is produced naturally by the brain. An Adept in the Esoteric Arts has such control over their body and mind as to stimulate the brain to produce an excess amount of DMT at will. No external source is required for the Adept, only for the Novice, and Novices have never been granted access to this ritual.
thanks diane ostrander it speaks volumes to me. My soul knows what I know not, but im learning it
Hi Leonard, If you follow the research of Graham Hancock and Dr Rick Strassman (Graham has taken a very similar brew approx 20 times and Dr Rick Strassman who conducted the first study into the affects of DMT on the human mind) Rick states that DMT is not found in the human brain but Melatonin is (which is 99% the same) this subject is hotly debated also that DMT is found in almost every plant in existence today (but the amounts are very small and you have to have a chemical brewed with it to turn off a chemical naturally produced in the stomach that stops the DMT taking affect.
Melatonin is produced by the pineal gland when the amount of light falls to almost nothing, from my research the brew was administered to the kings to “kick start” the process, as was lowering their body temperature and slowing their heart down. DMT was rife in Egypt not only in the lily but also in the bark of the acacia tree (which is native to this area) hence the whole burning incense (acacia bark) during religious rituals and Moses (Akhenaten) setting fire to the bush (the burning bush fable) to be given guidance from god. this ritual (almost) is still carried out today in the Amazon, with the same results. My research shows (as you say) that the kings trained for years for this ritual, and after the ritual they seemed to “glow” this glowing is why there is a hole in the roof of the Pantheon in Rome, the Pope stood in a certain point on a special date and when the sun hit him he “glowed” because of the white robes he wore. I would love to debate this with you some more, so we can follow each others research.
Mike, you are assuming the Egyptian pharaohs of this time were all Twice Bornâ€¦ most were not, and because of this, required hallucinatory substances to initiate spiritual revelation. (The Kolbrin, among other sources, confirms the spiritual and moral degeneration of the kings of this time, the vast majority of whom no longer underwent the training to prepare to be Twice Born, hence the need for external drugs. I would also add, that using drugs of this nature without combined proper training tends to produce confused and delusionary Visions and unbalanced spiritual growth, hence the madness and degradation found in many of these same kings. )
Hallucinogens were required for Novices and the curious, in some instances used with training Initiates, but were not at all required by Adepts or Masters (intense discipline and training in this area precludes the need for any â€œkickstartâ€, especially for those who were selected for the final test of the Twice Born ritual). In fact, lower level meditaters can replicate the spiritual and psychological effects of DMT ingestion quite easily, plus much more, with greater duration, clarity, and recall.
As for DMT being in most plants, this is quite true, however, it is in such trace amounts that it cannot in most locations be extracted for consumption. And the anthropological record bears this out, as only a minority of a minority of all known past tribes or civilizations used DMT based hallucinogens.
You say the brew Hancock took (ayahuasca), is â€œvery similarâ€ to the brew of the Twice Born. Ayahuasca does not kill or threaten to kill, and its hallucinatory effect does not last for days. The Twice Born ritual (I repeat) lasted for days in isolation in a semi-comatose state (which you failed to address), and threatened to literally kill many who underwent the procedure. And this, after decades of training for the dread test! Sorry, this does not really compare with a tourist thrill seeker spending a weekend in Brazil or Peru drinking ayahuasca on a retreat.
As for Strassman, you seem confused by his statements and research. Please source where he states that â€œthat DMT is not found in the human brainâ€. Not only have I not been able to source this, but Strassman himself was the main popularizer of the notion that DMT was produced in the pineal gland. While it is true that he states he cannot prove this, he finds it to be the most likely source.
Quote Rick Strassman:
â€œThe Psychedelic Pineal
A “DMT theory of pineal function” has great appeal, as many of the necessary ingredients and enzymes for its formation exist in remarkably high concentrations in the pineal. Building upon existing data, I present several scenarios in which the pineal may produce DMT instead of melatonin. I speculate about endogenous DMT’s role in dreams, meditation, birth, near-death, and death. I suggest that the individual’s life-force enters the body through the pineal at 49 days after conception, and leaves it through the pineal gland at death. This 49-day prenatal period corresponds to the first signs of fetal pineal tissue, the differentiation of the gonads into male and female, and how long it takes between the death of an individual and its soul’s next rebirth according to the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. I suggest a meta-physical model in which biological, psychological, and spiritual drives or impulses all may exist in a dynamic tension within this spirit gland.â€
But we have already long known DMT is in the brain, whether or not it is proven to be produced by the pineal gland, as it has been isolated in human blood, urine, and cerebrospinal fluid. If it is in the blood, it is in the brainâ€¦
Also, this year scientists at Strassman run Cottonwood Research have isolated DMT in the pineal glands of rats as Strassman is attempting to prove the pineal is the source of DMT production.
In light of this you may wish to clarify your statements.
Beyond this, you have a long way to prove that DMT based hallucinogens were used specifically in the Twice Born ritual, let alone the precise nature or even existence of this particular ritual, considering the rarity and secrecy surrounding it. For other uses yes, but not this specific ritual.
It is simply something not at all required for those trained in such areas.
Hi Leonard, just a few answers for your post: There is a difference between Egyptian Kings and Pharaohs, Both were rulers of Egypt but the King status ended with senenre tao II, The last king, after this time they were all called Pharaoh, because the secrets of the king making ritual were lost when he was killed by three thugs from the Hyksos tribe from lower Egypt, the secrets were substituted with fake secrets after his death hence there were no more kings just Pharaohs. The kings went through the training but the Pharaohs didnâ€™t. when you overdose on DMT it produces confusing and delusionary visions some quite frightening. I quite agree with you that the Egyptian Mystery Schools teachings were very deep and probably did enhance the affects of the ritual but the Kolbrin is quite precise in mentioning the different brews (brew of black fungus etc) needed in the kings and queens chamber to produce the â€œout of body experienceâ€ this wouldnâ€™t have happened if it wasnâ€™t needed, would it? If you look into Mayan, Aztec, Inca and Native American tribes youll find not only hellucinogens taken to contact the gods but also rhythmic drumming chanting and meditating as well (another way of â€œkick startingâ€ the pineal gland) If you research a new documentary called â€œThe Sacred Scienceâ€ a group of volunteers were taken into the Amazon to cure their ailments, part of the cure was spiritual and ayahuasca was taken and they clearly state that the affects lasted for â€œa few daysâ€ hardly â€œtourist thrill seekers spending a weekend in Brazil or Peru drinking Ayahuasca on a retreatâ€ donâ€™t you think? They were there for 30 days and one of them stayed for 3 months in total. As for Strassman, he claims its his hypothesis not fact, and if you research it a bit deeper youâ€™ll find Dr. Bryan Yamamoto, a professor and Chairman of the neuroscience department at the University of Toledo, said: â€œI know of no evidence that DMT is produced anywhere in the body. Itâ€™s chemical structure is similar to serotonin and melatonin but their endogenous actions are very different from DMT.â€ Even Graham Hancock said it was Ricks â€œSuggestionâ€ and â€œit needs to be fully validatedâ€ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx9Bmes9y8E If DMT was in someoneâ€™s blood stream it wouldnâ€™t be a suggestion it would be proven. And from Ricks website you quoted, he called it â€œA DMT theory of pineal functionâ€ You are quite right in saying â€œit is in the pineal gland of ratsâ€ but its still not proven to be in human brains. You are quite well read on the subject how long have you been researching it and what made you start?
Just coincidentally stumbled onto this blue lily reference, watch at 1 hour and 3 minutes mark. This is a cool podcast btw.
â€œYou are quite well read on the subject how long have you been researching it and what made you start?â€
I make it my business to be as well read and knowledgeable as I can concerning a great many subjects. The understanding of self and consciousness is a primary one. How the Self reacts under different conditions and states of awareness is central to this understanding. Studies in culture, history, biology, and a great many other sciences are useful in understanding the consciousness question, and it is something Iâ€™ve focused on all my life. If youâ€™re asking about looking into DMT specifically, I think it was about 20 years ago when I first looked into it.
You are correct, there is no clear cut evidence (only circumstantial evidence thus far) DMT is produced in the body, yet it is in the body. Science will document how it is physiologically produced/altered in the not too distant future, and it does seem Strassman is coming closer and closer to proving his theory considering his and othersâ€™ recent developments.
From my understanding, it is a subtle shift in the manner of producing melatonin that provides more or less of DMT. However, DMT is the effect, not the cause. Physiological/biological/chemical changes in the body are brought into being by action, attitude, state of consciousness; or, in other words, your chosen personal energetic frequency which sets the pattern for physiology. While it is true external stimuli can and does affect the Self, in the long run it is more for the purpose of pattern recognition, and adverse or undesired effects of all kinds may and are overcome by choice and will. Ultimately, the external controlling the internal (lower controlling higher, etc.) is discovered to be an inversion of reality awareness, but the realizing of this under ever greater amounts of stress and pressure ends up determining our strength and mastery. (Even submission to external stimuli is a choice, although generally an unconscious one during the process.) Given enough time and energy, even physical poisons are rendered harmless (not to mention hallucinogens) and metabolized. You are the deciding force that moulds creation, not the other way around, unless one so chooses it. And this is the process of alchemyâ€¦
â€œIf DMT was in someoneâ€™s blood stream it wouldnâ€™t be a suggestion it would be proven.â€
I suggest you consider being more thorough in your research in the future, as I normally have no interest in fact finding for others who have less than adequate seriousness in their subject of study. See below:
In 2005, a study was published in the Scandinavian Journal of Clinical & Laboratory Investigation which PROVES the existence of DMT in the blood and other bodily tissues (the summery to the study can be found through the following link and the entire study may be read through web links on the page thereon):
A chart from the same study shows the average percentage of DMT found in bodily tissue reposted in Wikipedia:
There have, before this study, been several earlier ones which came to similar results (going back all the way to the 1960â€™s), but none have been as thorough as the one I just posted, and since the 2005 study, it has been virtually unquestioned in the scientific community that DMT is an endogenous chemical. The unfortunate thing is, the molecule is so small, so thinly disbursed, and so rapidly metabolized, that science has yet been unable to prove exactly how or where it is made (therefore, its precise SOURCE is unproven). As I said, Strassman is getting close, but not quite there yet.
There are several other studies that I shall not bore this group with, but there is a DMT forum with some interesting discussion. On this thread, they are hypothesizing on how the DMT gets into the blood (lungs, liver, kidneys, pineal, etc.) They might help to point you in the right direction (even Strassman is quoted, â€œWE DO KNOW that the gene involved in DMT synthesis is present in MANY ORGANS, particularly lung).:
â€œpart of the cure was spiritual and ayahuasca was taken and they clearly state that the affects lasted for â€œa few daysâ€â€
The affect of the cure or the MAOI present in the ayahuasca can last a few days, the hallucinatory affect (see DMT component) lasts but a few hours. You can do your own research on this one, as you seem to be unaware of how DMT works with an MAOI.
â€œIf you look into Mayan, Aztec, Inca and Native American tribes youll find not only hellucinogens taken to contact the gods but also rhythmic drumming chanting and meditating as well (another way of â€œkick startingâ€ the pineal gland)â€
Some are more controlled, clear, and effective, while others are less soâ€¦
â€œI quite agree with you that the Egyptian Mystery Schools teachings were very deep and probably did enhance the affects of the ritual but the Kolbrin is quite precise in mentioning the different brews (brew of black fungus etc) needed in the kings and queens chamber to produce the â€œout of body experienceâ€ this wouldnâ€™t have happened if it wasnâ€™t needed, would it?â€
What do you think the â€˜black fungusâ€™ is? Probably not something very niceâ€¦
Regardless, this is not needed to produce an out of body experience. And while the Twice Born ritual is an out of body experience, it is much, MUCH MORE than that. There have also been different methods used to facilitate this ritual over time and place. So, to answer your question, no, one specific brew is NOT required for this ritual in effect, only more usefulâ€¦
Hi Leonard, as I said at the beginning, this is a highly debated topic and we could go round and round both pulling up different research to try and prove or disprove the existence of DMT in the human body. I would just like to leave you with this quote: "Strassman was clear that his hypothesis was not proven, and admitted he knew â€œlittle about theoretical physics,â€ it hasnâ€™t stopped many from repeating his ideas as fact". I wont bore you with the details but the Egyptians removed the brains of the dead kings so that the pineal gland wasnt present in the body. so my thoughts are that this gland obviously had some very major part to play in connecting to the afterlife. I dont think that the Egyptians knew DMT was the key to the connection, they were just giving a brew that worked and had done for centuries (just my thoughts). Its been good debating with you, keep up the research. Mike
Thank you Manuel, it seems that both Leonard and I have Been saying the same thing from different view points. Sort of discussing whether Asprin or Neurofen relieve a headache when they both do!! lol. this is what groups like this are about, calmly discussing a topic and becoming wiser as the topic unfolds. Fantastic group!! thank you.
the Lotus of creation emerging from the waters,..created by ex nihilo (nothing) which is sound! sound has no mass it is no thing yet pushes (commands) all mass
Thanks for the debate Mike!
Hopefully the points we have brought up help to educate ourselves and others as to the nature of our physical reality and to be better equipped to choose the most useful and rewarding Path(s) before us.
Although, I would say the difference between aspirin and neurofen is not the best analogy. It is more like the difference between taking aspirin and curing your own headache at will, utilizing and being master of your own bodily defenses and employing them without any external substance or crutch.
No prob Mike, glad you enjoy the group. Albeit small, we do have some remarkable posters here.
From my understanding, it is a subtle shift in the manner of producing melatonin that provides more or less of DMT. However, DMT is the effect, not the cause. Physiological/biological/chemical changes in the body are brought into being by action, attitude, state of consciousness; or, in other words, your chosen personal energetic frequency which sets the pattern for physiology. While it is true external stimuli can and does affect the Self, in the long run it is more for the purpose of pattern recognition, and adverse or undesired effects of all kinds may and are overcome by choice and will. Ultimately, the external controlling the internal (lower controlling higher, etc.) is discovered to be an inversion of reality awareness, but the realizing of this under ever greater amounts of stress and pressure ends up determining our strength and mastery. (Even submission to external stimuli is a choice, although generally an unconscious one during the process.) Given enough time and energy, even physical poisons are rendered harmless (not to mention hallucinogens) and metabolized. You are the deciding force that moulds creation, not the other way around, unless one so chooses it. And this is the process of alchemyâ€¦"
Thanks Len, going thru some tough times, I found this very helpful, and a refreshing reminder of the true perspective.
Love and light brother.
I’m glad it helped, Sha’ul. I am sorry to hear of your recent struggle. Remember, it will pass or you will overcome, and your reward for that struggle will be wisdom, should you accept it.
I for one hope it is sooner rather than latter, so that you may share with us the wisdom learned in your struggle. Your presence is missed, but will be all the better once you return with clearer eyes.
Much Love and Light to you…