The Vedas and Creation

Some of the subjects we’ve been touching here lately but from a Vedic perspective.

The Rig Veda is one of the most powerful and profound texts I have ever come across. The information, knowledge, and wisdom contained within have only barely been deciphered or ‘unlocked’ by the vast majority of modern day students.

Knowing what we know about the culture, tools, and resources of ancient India, I’d like to pose an open question to the group. How did these ancients acquire this knowledge?

(The same question could be proposed for the advanced knowledge of the ancient Sumerian, Egyptian, Jewish, Keltic and other groups.)

And, if they were able to gain this insight and power, couldn’t we as well?

The saints of ancient world were great thinkers and scientists we can infer this. Those who are practitioner of the religions, they will definitely say "since its God's words, its revealed knowledge" But analyzing from a neutral unbiased perspective, I can say definitely ancients were advanced scientists who found almost all sides of knowledge we are re-discovering today. Unfortunately, during the course of time, due to political reasons, social reason, misunderstandings, modern generations are remaining deprived of this knowledge which is unfortunate. We should restudy all the ancient knowledge not just out of faith but out of source of knowledge, discuss it, and perhaps it will help us in taking our civilization in much forward civilization than we are today..........

Sayon, welcome to the group!

What is your definition of “revealed knowledge”? And in what manner and with what tools do you believe the ancients acquired this advanced knowledge? And what part did ritual play in this for teachers of both ancient times and those more recent that added to this knowledge, whom we know did not have any advanced technological aids?

Thank you sir....Well iam not so well awared as iam still a student of Vedic knowledge. Not so expertised. But whatever I have seen, all the religions across the world who say their scriptures as revealed knowledge say the knowledge was given by God to its people. As far as Vedas are considered, its not the 4 books you see. They are just the collection of mantras also known as "Sruti" or "samhita" meaning "That which is heard". Its said that Vedaic mantra are without beginning or end. It was always their in every creation it was revealed to mankind. As far as I have heard, in the present creation too it was revealed to different saints who passed them over to their desciples and in this way it was preserved in Guru-Desciple succession. 5000 years ago, a sage called as "Ved Vyas" recorded the mantras and divided them in 4 parts. They are the 4 vedic books we see today. But there are lot more, There are 6 different parts of Vedic Philosophy along with Vedanta which analyses in detail about nature of mind, life, soul, nature, karma, Science, mathematics, God, and his relation with human being etc. Its said that origin of all of them are Vedas themselves where all these knowledge are in encoded form. Since ages, different saints, thinkers have analysed and have been decoding these knowledge.

The tools they used can be called as pioneer of modern science. For example, a sage called as Susruta, who did the first Plastic surgery about 2nd century BC used to use tools very similar to modern medical tools and there have not been much changes since them (Very few changes in the process). Astronomical experiments was in most of the times based on mathematics. Ayurveda was a result of excusive knowledge of Human body and Herbal science. It seems they used to experiment a lot with natural things and human body. But its just my personal view. perhaps I can invite my friends who know more than I do to help me understand this questions.

Sayon, as expected, you laid out a summation for a ‘complete’ system of science, including methods accounting for induced, deduced, and revealed knowledge; both internal and external. It is spiritual, physical, metaphysical, mental, emotional, political, and ethical. It allows for both first hand personal discovery and a means to pass down accumulated knowledge to many over a long period of time. The Vedic/Hindu tradition is the most comprehensive public epistemological mode of thought in the world today. Other older traditions in this mold have either died out or have gone underground. And while it is not perfect, it is a modern example of the mode of thought which the ancient masters acquired, accumulated, and preserved knowledge.

Yes Sayon, please invite your friends to the group. I’m sure there is much we can learn from one another. :slight_smile:

Great post Len, i agree. Welcome Sayon, thanks for joining.

Sayon do you have any knowledge on the Vedic take on what we were talking about here just now, the fall and how humanity has lost their wisdom with the passing of time?

As far as India is considered, I believe there are lots of reasons.......Firstly, the rise of lots of Puranic sects which stressed on faith, rituals and devotion more than knowledge....Secondly rise of different political kingdoms, tantrik practises,raising social divide laid the foundation of the devoluation. after 7th century, the raising islamic attacks and their massacre of the Teacher communities and Knowledge banks also known as Brahmins did a huge damage. during the 800 years of islamic Rule, main stress was done by Muslim kings to destroy the Teachers of Vedic knowledge. During the British Rule, Lord Macaluay stressed on destroying the traditional education system of India and introducing the English pattern. And even after Indian Independence, still intellectually India is a Colony where, Education system of Vedic pattern is undermined, Mispropogation about Vedic society is highly done in media, use of sanskrit language is being tried to be destroyed as much as possible. talks about Indian culture is Portrayted as Old fashioned and Extrimism. Traditional Gurukuls are today striving to even survive and are on its verge of extinction. Because of which we are struggling to preserve our ancient knowledge..... what is the meaning of the verse about Tree of Jiva and Atman? Guess that all up to interpretation? Seems Jiva doesn't have to be female? Maybe? :)

"The jiva is actually a spiritual entity. By external vision, jiva may appear as male or female but that is not the real nature of jiva.

sankalpana-sparsana-drsti-mohair grasambu-
vrsthyatma vivrddha janma karmanugany
anukramena dehi sthanesu rupany abhisamprapadyate

The jiva takes many types of material bodies according to his actions through his desires, touch, sight, illusion, eating, water, and rain.

Svetasvatara Upanisad 5.11 "

Tree of Jiva and Atman

"The Tree of Jiva and Atman appears in the Vedic scriptures, predating current Hinduism, as a metaphysical metaphor concerning the soul.

The Rig Veda samhita 1.164.20-22, Mundaka Upanishad 3.1.1-2, and Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.6-7, speak of two birds, one perched on the branch of the tree, which signifies the body, and eating its fruit, the other merely watching.

Rig Veda samhita says:

1.164.20 Two birds associated together, and mutual friends, take refuge in the same tree; one of them eats the sweet fig; the other abstaining from food, merely looks on.

1.164.21 Where the smooth-gliding rays, cognizant, distil the perpetual portion of water; there has the lord and steadfast protector all beings accepted me, though immature in wisdom.

1.164.22 In the tree into which the smooth-gliding rays feeders on the sweet, enters, and again bring forth light over all, they have called the fruit sweet, but he partakes not of it who knows not the protector of the universe.

The first bird represents a Jiva, or individual self, or soul. She has a female nature, being a sakti, an energy of God. When the jiva becomes distracted by the fruits (signifying sensual pleasure), she momentarily forgets her lord and lover and tries to enjoy the fruit independently of him. This separating forgetfulness is maha-maya, or enthrallment, spiritual death, and constitutes the fall of the jiva into the world of material birth, death, disease and old age.

The second bird is the Paramatman, an aspect of God who accompanies every living being in the heart while she remains in the material world. He is the support of all beings and is beyond sensual pleasure.

It can be stated that this concept of Atman and Jiva have been personified and taken into the Bible as Adam and Eve and the fall of man. Conversely it can also be stated that this abstraction of Jiva and Atman is immutable essence related to the events surrounding the fall or man.

Another interpretation is the two birds are two options: one is to eat the sweet fruits; other is merely look on and recognize where the smooth-gliding rays distil the perpetual water (the leaves and the root); there the lord and protector accepts me in the tree, into which the smooth-gliding rays feeders on the sweet and brings light over the tree. First consciousness has to know the protector of the universe and then partakes of it.

The text itself, however, relates more to the bounties of the world and praise for the creator. The myriad of interpretations of this particular text are seeded more in later Hindu philosophizations influenced over time by the interactions of Hinduism with other philosophies and religions, rather than having any clear historical association with the intended meaning of the specific verse."

Well, that’s all pretty amazing…I’ve never read any of that before…wow.
As far as the Sumerians go, they say that their knowledge came from the Anunnaki…whom we all know, at least in theory.
As for Jewish knowledge, it was “revealed” while holy men were in a state of trancelike prayer with YHVH, it was He, they say, that “opened their minds to the knowledge of the ten spherot”, wich knowledge is contained, mainly, in the Zohar. Many other mystical scientific works have been lost over time. You would be amazed to know how many very ancient texts the Catholics , Muslims, and Nazis have destroyed, as well as the Romans, Asyrians, and Greeks. Many works are known to exist, only because they are mentioned in other works.