Maori Tradition

Hi Sha'ul, thanks for your comment very interesting, in my culture(Maori) The ancient history of the Waitaha, says that it was a women that was created before man, from the red clay of the earth, and yes the women where the knowledge holders and teachers, they were often referred to in symbolic terms as the whale(teachers), with dolphins being represented as the students of learning, this is according to the waitaha history's. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Story Of The First Woman

Even The Gods Are Born Of Woman. And red was the clay and gentle the hands that first shaped her. And she gives us life, and in life there is death, and she waits for us at the end, as she was in the beginning.

Mokopuna of mine, children of caring mothers, draw close to the flames and hear of wonders hidden in the mists of Creation…

When the tides rolled back from the land and the skies had cleared, the Sun shone down on a sacred and distant shore to touch the body of a woman of exciting beauty. She was fashioned from the red earth of Kokowai and here clear red skin shone in the Full Moon. She was of the Kurawaka Nation; those with the skin of the first colours of the rainbow. And the ancient ones cared for her.

And it was fortold she whould become Mother of the Nations of the sea, and Mother of the children of the many winds of the oceans. She was Hine Ahu One, first Mother of the land, moulded and shaped by Tane Nui o Rangi. He breathed life into her beautiful body and in her fathered the first of the daughters of time.

And that daughter was Hine Ti Tama, child of the gentle colours of the dawn. And this daughter of the soft light bore the children of her creator, Tane Nui o Rangi. And as they grew she looked for the grandparent who would give them learning and wisdom. So she went to Hine Ahu One and asked who her father was, and her mother replied…

‘Ask it of the winds, of the stars, of the posts in the house, of the very air that you breathe. They are of the one who is also your father.’

And Hine Ti Tama understood she was the daughter of her husband Tane Nui o Rangi and in her distress she spoke the karakia that set him free. In the deep sadness that followed she decided to become the keeper of the souls of her children when they died. She left behind her old name. We know her as Hine Nui Te Po, the Guardian of the Dead.

Moko, there is knowledge in the light of the flames. Know that women hold the land for they are of the red earth. Understand women count the generations and tie them to the beginning and the end. And always remember they flow with the Tides of Life.

…Song of Waitaha…

That was beautiful Heremaia Koopu. What an interesting history too! I had to find out more...Seems the history can be traced back 2,000 years. Maybe longer?

"The Waitaha comprised three hapu or extended families: The Kurawaka, The Rakaiwaka and the Pakauwaka. These names describe the three stars that form the well known Belt of Orion, referred to by the Waitaha Teachers of the Wananga as the Pepe o Te Po, or the Moth of the Night. In some cases referred to as the Kupenga o Te Ao or the Fishing Trap of the Universe. Both references are made at different times of the year and for differing purposes.

The “Song of Waitaha” was released to the world by Waitaha elders because of the hate and the prejudice that was being created by the Land Claims of different hapu, who had created themselves recent histories at the expence of the First Nations Peoples long resident in these lands of hopes and dreams. The layers in these lands are composite layers of thousands of years of living in peace."

“For it has been decided it is time for our treasures to be brought into the light.”

“We do this for the children, and their children, and all who call this land home.”

“We are of Tane Matua, and we follow Rongo Marae Roa, the God of Peace.”

“In the WISDOM and aroha (love) of those words, we say: `Let the sacred kete (basket containing sacred knowledge) be opened for the ancestors to speak again. Let the ancient karakia and waiata be heard throughout the land. Welcome to the trails of the peoples of the Nation of Waitaha. May you journey far in peace and understanding.”

Hi Diane Ostrander yes the history goes back way further, than modern historians would like to admit, there is a bit of a conspiracy regarding NZ History, something i have researched quite deeply, there is suggestive evidence of Egyptian, Greek, Celtic, hebrew, peoples and many more living here in the distant past, of waitaha, there records state that some of there people were from different continents as waitaha was made of three peoples(Hapu), one of them peoples were a red head tall blue and green eyed race. Its quite funny that i am currently talking about waitaha here, because my research of the kolbrin and waitaha, has lead me to believe that waitaha and NZ are connected to certain parts of The kolbrin.

For instance i notice in the kobrin, the word Kohar used alot in THE BOOK OF SCROLLS

O departed one risen to glory, you are now a released spirit united with your spirit whole, the companionable Kohar, the everlasting one. Arise alive in the Land Beyond the Horizon and journey to the Land of Dawning; the stars accompanying you will sing for joy, while the heavenly signs voice hymns of praise and gladness. You are not far removed from us, it is as if we were in one room divided by a curtain, therefore we are not sorrowful. If we weep it is because we cannot share your joys and because we no longer know your touch.

O everlasting Kohar, take this man of goodness into your eternal embrace, let your life become his life and your breath his breath. He is your own, he is the drop returning to the filled pitcher, the leaf returning to the tree, you are the repository of his incarnations. As you grew there, so he grew here; you are everlastingly whole and he lives in you. If he is not even as you in face, let him enter, hide his faults, for they are not many. For this you were fashioned, for this you came into being, you are the overbody awaiting the returning spirit, and the spirit now comes. You are that which will clothe the newly arrived spirit in heavenly flesh. You are that in which our departed one will express himself.

O Kohar, hear us. Here is your vitalizing essence; before you were incomplete, now you are whole. Draw your own, your compatible one, to you and observe the many likenesses. We send fragrances, that they may spread around you. Now take the eye which will perfect your face, it is the perfecting eye, the eye which sees things as they are. See the fluctuating wraith, is it not beautiful? Does it not come with an aura of fragrance, sweetness filling the air? It has been purged of all impurities, all about it is fragrant. Therefore, grant it your substance, that it may become solid and firm.

O Kohar, long have you awaited the day of fulfillment, the day of your destiny. That day is here, it is now; therefore, take the spirit which is your own and enfold it with your wings. Each to his own and to his own each goes. You and he are bound together with unseverable bonds, each without the other is nothing. Now bear him up, for in that place you are greater than he, for you are the generator. While he rested in the womb you were active, as he grew you grew before him. If he has done wrong, and who among men is guiltless, then in you let the wrong be adjusted. You are his hope, you are his shield and you are his refuge.

When i first read this i was surprised as we also have a very similar word Koha in our maori culture, and i have never seen it out of the context in which we used it for, so i looked up the meaning, and it could well relate to the meaning that the kolbrin is associating with the word, now there is a interesting twist to the Maori language, and that is that it is very closely related to the ancient Aryan language, even closer than ancient greek.


What is Koha?

Koha? Well, to properly answer this, permit me to offer a quick course in Philosophical Maori 101.

Koha is a Maori word which predated money, but now has become NZ English as has Mana and Aroha, among others, which I will attempt to explain.

In isolation, Koha is a gift brought by the visitor to the people of the land, often food or treasures, and it is part of the process of Manakitanga which defines the realm of hospitality or the sharing of information. The Koha reflects the Mana of both the giver and the recipient. From a very practical standpoint, if visitors came a calling, the host was expected to provide hospitality of food, beds in the communal sleeping hall and appropriate attention and honours – something that could be difficult in lean times when food was scarce, so a visiting party might offer food as Koha. Or perhaps the visitor came from South Island – called in Maori Te Wai Ponamu – the waters (Te Wai) of the treasured greenstone (ponamu), and their gift would be the ponamu greenstone, a taonga – a great treasure*.

Mana is the stature of the person, gained from land, ancestry and works of ones life. In your case, when you present your bio, you are giving an indication of your mana, but the ultimate determination of your mana is in person, when you are thrice greeted and perceived. The first greeting acknowledges your person, the second your soul and the third your spiritual being – God within you, all the spiritual power you carry with you as you walk on this earth. This is difficult to explain in English, because although we all instantly and inherently “read” people when we meet them, we lack language in English to articulate the multiple levels which we in fact instantly perceive. It gets more complicated because unless one is in ones clarity, that reading of the other gets mixed up with ones self. In traditional Maori this was all understood and worked out.

Prior to your talk, you will have been received by us, hence transform from manuhiri (visitor) to tangata whenua (person of the land – whenua means both land and placenta). When you begin to give your talk, you are of the host (of us, and behind us, the first and many subsequent peoples of our valley, with whose blessing we stand on the land), and the people who come to hear you become the manuhiri, the visitors. In your case, you shall transmit information (not feed them) and in acknowledgement of your mana, and reflecting each visitor’s mana, they shall make a koha to you. You give them your knowledge, they acknowledge you with koha. But they are not paying you, even though after the talk, you possess what they have gifted you. Also, by your speaking in our Bard Hall, you will add to its mana, as have speakers before you, and this mana shall embed both in peoples hearts, but also in the very walls of the building. It’s why an ancient abbey feels more sacred that a freshly built new church.

In its purity, the level of koha would vary by each person, reflecting what they can afford, the regard they hold for you and the value they place on your information. Before money the gifts would be either noa (such as food) or a taonga (a treasure, such as carved greenstone). Now it is deemed acceptable to use money. However, the principles of establishing the amount based on mana is not well understood nowadays and to make it simpler, a tradition of setting a recommended amount tends to evolve. Most events at our place seem to be $10 in a bowl at the front door.

This may seem the same as a ticket price, but because it carries with it the ancient traditions of something greater, it has a different character to it. Among other things, we find people who normally command large speaking fees will return multiple times to places like ours with their humble proceeds because the relationship is more refreshing. It’s somehow more balanced. In a curious way, it solves Socrates problem with the sophists who taught for money, not love. With koha you speak for aroha, and koha is gifted out of aroha.

Aroha is the word for love, but it means more than in typical English. My colleague Ruth Makuini Tai writes: The word Aroha holds a premier position within the Maori language of Aotearoa New Zealand. Maori language and practise holds the memory of a time when the force of Aroha was understood and respected by all. Aroha is the creative force behind all dreams. Aroha defines great leadership, ensures personal success, inspires us to go the extra mile. Aroha means Love. However when we explore its roots Aroha yields a profound message about love that is not widely understood.

ARO is thought, life principle, to pay attention, to focus, to concentrate

RO is inner, within, introspection

HA is life force, breath, energy

OHA is generosity, prosperity, abundance, wealth

When people write to you, and sign it Arohanui, they are using the word Aroha and Nui. Nui means large, great, intense, many, plentiful, abundant, important, and openly, in public. So while it might be translated as lots of love, in fact in Maori it means much more

Read Further

There are other connections which i have found, and i look forward to shareing and disscussing them in the coming weeks, months.

The kolbrin kohar sounds like a manifestation reflection of ourselves in a other world(spirit), which helps balance out our phyic being in some way, cause and effect every action has a reaction, thus everything we do in life, has a reaction to our koha, mana, etc, its the teachings related to this side of man, that i find the kolbrin so helpful, such a wonderful book.

I see how the kolbrin meaning, relates to the maori meaning, in a similar way, concidering there is so much more meaning to the word, then published here.

I need to read these posts more carefully back home but it's all very fascinating Heremaia. Did you ever find anything about Ramakui or Meruah in your research?
Hi Manuel, Coincidence you asked, Yes, I found lots of relationship to that chapter of the kolbrin to waitaha and NZ, and the name Ramakai possibly to Maori and the pacific region.

He died in the manner of men, though his likeness is that of God. Then they cut him apart, that his body might make fertile the fields, and took away his head, that it might bring them wisdom. His bones they did no paint red, for they were not as those of others.

The painting of the bones red, similar to waitaha practice.


It was the people who came with Rakaihautu and their descendants who executed on sheltered cliff-faces the paintings, around the origin of which so much surmise has centered. My informant reckoned that the ancestors of these people had once had a system of writing very unlike English writing or printing, and that they lost much of the knowledge in coming from land to land, but still retained memories of it. These paintings represented their writing after they came to New Zealand, and preserved to them incidents of their history. Only the designs done in black are Waitaha work, and the method of making the paint has bean traditionally handed down. There is a tree called - 149 monoao, which my informant had seen growing at Benmore (near Lake Hawea), and describes as like a macrocarpa, with branches that may grow many feet long and with leaves like matai (black pine). Probaby no other kind of tree in New Zealand contains so much gum or resin (called ware in south, pia in north), and it will burn readily when green. The branches of this tree when burnt, give off a smoke, said my informant, that would speedily turn white clothes black with soot. Screens were erected to direct the smoks against a tipaki (flax mat), and the root was subsequently scraped into an ipu (carved wooden basin). Tarata trees would be chipped and the gum collected, and rautawhiri berries gathered. These berries or seeds were smashed and tightly squeezed into a whitau (flax bag) and hung by the fire, when the oil from them would drip into the ipu. The oil of the weka (woodhen) was also an ingredient, and these four items were mixed in certain proportions, “not too thick nor too thin,” and the result, said my informant, was “an ink that would stand for ever.” The claim that the paint so obtained was indelible is substantiated by the state of preservation of the work, as some of the black paintings are probably over 1,000 years old. The red paintings, continued my informant, were done many generations later than the black, and were the work of Kati-Mamoe, who simply copied the Waitaha figures. The red paint was made out of horu (red ochre, obtained in the streams), and was much the same as that used for preserving the dead. The Waitaha used black for painting, and the red for rubbing on the bodies of the dead, but the Kati-Mamoe used red for both purposes, as also for decorating canoes, etc. The general name whakairo was applied to the rock-paintings, but to distinguish them from canoe and other carvings also so-called, they were more particularly referred to as Te-ana-whakairo (“the cave carvings.”),_No._107/Traditions_and_legends._Collected_from_the_natives_of_Murihiku._(Southland,_New_Zealand),_by_H._Beattie,_p_137-161/p1

I looked into the maori meaning of Ramakai

Ra - day/Sun
Ma - White/clear
Kui - Term or address of an elderly maori women

Even within the maori definition of the name, sugest’s it was associated with women, and could possibly referr to the mother land, of the sons of Fire, sun people, red heads?.

In olden times, when men lived in the ground, there came the Great One whose name is hidden. Son of Hem, Son of the Sun, Chief of the Guardians of Mysteries, Master of Rites and Spoken Word. Judge of Disputes, Advocate of the Dead, Interpreter of the Gods and Father of Fishermen. From the West, from beyond Mandi, came the Great One arrayed in robes of black linen and wearing a head-dress of red.

Easter Island Demystified

Names such as Rarotonga (Sun in the South) and Tonga Tapu (South forbidden) only make sense if named by people who came from the North, ie Hawaii. One particular island called Ra’iatea was named after the people already living there. The name means ‘Sun people white’ and was noted by Captain Wallis, who visited the island in 1767, to have a high proportion of pale skinned people, many of which had red hair, living on it.

The people who came with Nadhi were wise in the ways of the seasons and in the wisdom of the stars. They read the Book of Heaven with understanding. They covered their dead with potter’s clay and hardened it, for it was not their custom to place their dead in boxes.

Those who came with the Great One were cunning craftsmen in stone, they were carvers of wood and ivory. The High God was worshipped with strange light in places of great silences. They paid homage to the huge sleeping beast in the depths of the sea, believing it to bear the Earth on its back; they believed its stirrings plunged lands to destruction. Some said it burrowed beneath them. In Ramakui there was a great city with roads and waterways, and the fields were bounded with walls of stone and channels. In the centre of the land was the great flat-topped Mountain of God.

The city had walls of stone and was decorated with stones of red and black, white shells and feathers. There were heavy green stones in the land and stones patterned in green, black and brown. There were stones of saka, which men cut for ornaments, stones which became molten for cunning work. They built walls of black glass and bound them with glass by fire.

They used strange fire from the Netherworld which was but slightly separated from them, and foul air from the breath of the damned rose in their midst. They made eye reflectors of glass stone, which cured the ills of men. They purified men with strange metal and purged them of evil spirits in flowing fire. We dwell in a land of three peoples, but those who came from Ramakui and Zaidor were fewer in numbers. It was the men of Zaidor who built the Great Guardian which ever watches, looking towards the awakening place of God. The day He comes not its voice will be heard.

Interesting to note waitaha was also a nation of 3 people, one a stone people, one a star people and one were garderners, also the referance to Large green stone deposits, which we still have in NZ.

Incredible ocean voyages

“There are enormous ocean currents, great rivers in the sea that carry you across the ocean and if you know where to get on and off these you can go wondrous distances.

“They were incredible voyages and are described in Song of Waitaha.

“When the Waitaha were ready, they sent the founding waka from their homelands, carrying 175 people who had the mana and the whakapapa and the wairua, the spirit, to make a nation – to create this nation of the Waitaha. And it was a nation of many people.”

There were three peoples aboard the founding waka. “One was called the Urukehu, the people whose skin was so white it was freckled. They had blonde hair and red hair and their eyes were blue or hazel. They were a small people. They were the Starwalkers, the navigators, and they had amazing skills in understanding the geometry of the stars. They could read the patterns in the stars to lead them to this land.

“Alongside them were the tall, dark people who were giants. They were over six foot and we know they existed because their bones are still here in special places. They were supreme gardeners. In this land they harvested the kumara 1000 kilometres further south than it was grown, even in its homeland in South America. They had developed sophisticated gardening skills. These were the Moriori.

“And the third people were called the Stone People, the Kirita. They were the stonewalkers, or stonecarriers, or stoneshapers. They were the people of the snows. People ask how they carried the pounamu over the mountains passes, how they coped with the snow and cold. They revelled in it, because that was their home. They came from the land of snow and cold.”

I am loving your input, really interesting stuff, and you've clearly been deep into Kolbrin research, glad to have you around, this is the main reason I created this group, so people like you would stumble upon it and help fill the missing pieces of the puzzle.
Thanks Manuel, glad there is a place i can share and talk about the kolbrin.

Ive posted alot of my research at this link here regarding ancient NZ and waitaha, i go by the name of Ra aka Royal Assassin enjoy . :slight_smile:

Heremia, how much do you know about the Phoenecian and Celtic early settlers pre Maori arrival in New Zealand ? I have heard that there are many Maori legends concerning them, that are not very politicaly corect to publish within this "greivence" culture that Maori have today. Where did the Mori Ori come from , and why did the Maoris wipe them all out ?
Hi Sha'ul, as i understand it the Mori Ori came from South America as stated in the waitaha history's, btw - maori did not wipe out the Mori ori, as there are Mori Ori still alive today, that being said, there was a great slaughtering of the Mori Ori by the maori that greatly reduced there numbers.

Yes there are Many Maori legends that talk about a white race here when they arrived, this is also stated in many of the different tribes history’s, the history of the maori is quite complicated, as there are many tribes, and many of them tribes came by different routes here to NZ, and have different history’s, waitaha being just one of many.

If you would like to know more, the information you seek can be found in more detail in the following link, it might be a better place to put forward your questions, and i could answer them in more detail there, or direct you to the right information, considering the question is not directly relevent to the kolbrin, and that some of the answer’s will require more than the amount of words that is allowed here per post:)

For more information about Celtics here in the past, this link explains the evidence in detail

Waitaha have an extensive in depth knowledge regarding matters of the spirit/consciousness. A Tauira(student) had the opportunity to explore these levels of knowledge, catered for by the wananga (Temple/House of learning).

Te mahi Roto i Te Ao wairua

The work inside the spirit world

The whispering and singing continued, and with it the understanding and the knowing, the continuum of ancient voices singing and whispering in the rhythm of the universe. it became the very pictures of the stories being painted by the orator, by the teacher, by the grandmother and grandfather.

The melodious sounds became almost hypnotic, and with it, the very time and space seemed to call the mokopuna into the world of dreams, and the grandchild fell asleep knowing that the voices continued on, long after the eyes closed and comprehension was made of what had been said. In the sleeptime the mokopuna became the Tauira in the spirit.

The spirit of the mokopuna then became the listener and the library in such a way that the learning was seamless and safe. The catalogue of all the sounds and forms became the grandchild, who in the physical was away on the long tides of dream and yearning, while in the spirit, was active in all senses, participating in the learning roles given, and taking everything that was said and sung into the memory of the tribe. There the moko was immersed in the tribal family memory, Te Hinengaro Koropupu o Te wahingaro.

The mokopuna became the hero of the sagas specially whispered in the strong, well trained voice of the teacher of the night. It made good sense to accelerate the learning during the night time while the universal mind was working. Our elders believed that the mind at night was able to soar high, to dive deep and to fly at speed in the theatre of the universal tides.

Every opportunity must be given to them to do their best to advance their spirit in this time. Only they will know what that journey is, as it was whispered to them by the Mareikura and Whatukura while they were collecting their spirit in the sacred houses of the universe.

Nga Whare Taputapu Atea

The sacred houses of the universe

The sacred houses were situated, it was told us during the Wananga, in the twelve sacred levels of the heavens. There are thirty-six sacred houses of the Creator who carefully placed the Whare Taputapu Atea, the sacred houses of the universe, strategically on the separate levels. These houses are the markers in the night skies that hold onto the star patterns that move in their solar orbits.

Our grandparents recognised the celestial, terrestrial and universal mind libraries of the powerful mind of the individual. Thus the separations of the time of teaching during the training of the mokopuna were given careful and studied recognition.

These chosen mokopuna had exhibited known characteristics of their forbears, and in some cases individual teachers and healers of the Wananga of Waitaha.

All of these signs were observed by the teachers of the Wananga, and this behaviour was all a part of the nation’s parents who contributed their observations of the children and the mokopuna as they advanced into the Wananga. After carefully checking these grandparent and parent observations, the wananga teachers and healers would then ask very pertinent questions of the mokopuna.

The answer to the questions would then help in the decisions of the teachers and healers in their ascertaining whether the grandchild was indeed the returned elder in progress along the great life and death spiral of growth.

Recognition markers were given to the grandchild and, as these became accepted by the mokopuna, the markers were moved to include a substantial amount of information that would be added gradually along with all of the recognition patterns in the environment. confirmation from the mokopuna of the recognition of these markers would then determine the level of the grandchild in the star journey.

There was a recongnition by our grandparent teachers that the spirit of the individual born into the families was being continually released from the spirit houses into the physical world through the birth of their mokopuna. This was the Tuituinga Wairua, the the stitching of the spirit. And through this continued stitching of the spirit it advanced the developing spirit, and through its development it then added the improvements to its body and soul. This gradual advancement of the spirit manifested itself in the abilities and talents of the grandchild who, on maturing, became a great leader for the nation.

Te Korowini, Te Korowana
The atoms, the molecules

Huhu kiri topu ana mai
the very skin of creation

kore rawa ka kitea mata e
cannot be seen by the naked eye

te korowai ihokopuni o te tai atea
the fabric of the cloak of the universe

tarwea mai ana i te rangi
rippling in the heavens

karahuri huri pena
twisting and turning like

i te niho marama
the teeth of the moon

kauru poupou mai ana
standing upright

ka titaha koa mai
then leaning slowly

te kukume kaha i
to pull strongly

te wai o rua e
the water of the spirit

mata akina ru para te hinengaro
unnerving and unravelling the senses

mehe takapu kupenga e piki heke ana
like a rising and falling mid section of a

manini, manana ana te wairua
fishing net the spirit totally unsettled.

e koru e mau
it will not catch

te ha o te korowini
the essence of the atoms

te ha o te korowana
the essence of the molecules

tuku ma te waiora
let the waters of the universe

te pupuri e…tuakiri e…
hold onto everything…tuakiri e

On and on the melodies and stories rolled: chanted, sung, spoken, whispered, cried out in anguish, and lamented in tears of pain; on and on, without let up, with huge patience, sometimes with frustration and concern, for the time periods were running together, that is, of the accelerating old age of the teacher and the length of time being taken by the mokopuna to grasp the concepts of the teachings.

Then came a sudden haunting silence. A grandmother or a grandfather, teacher, healer and friend of the trial of the mokopuna, had gone on into the Tai Atea, the tides of the universe. this was the place of the great spiral of light and darkness. It was now time to move the grandchild on into the hands, hearts and minds of the next grandparent teachers.

Whispers of Waitaha ~ Traditions of a Nation

So, where did all this wonderful mystic information and scientific knowledge go ? Certainly, the cannibals that had just wiped out the original inhabitants of New Zealand didn’t show any signs of advanced knowledge when Captain Cook turned up ? In fact, now it is coming to light, that indeed, much, much, Maori tradition and custom, has been “appropriated” from those same original inhabitants . Where are the cave paintings, the writing, the mathematic knowledge, advanced tools and structures of other ancient peoples, who surely did come into contact with something, or someone much wiser, and greater, than themselves ?

When will the Maori let the truth be told, what are you, they, afraid of ?
Let me hear honesty, before you try and get me to swallow the history you say is yours .

Karma, or G-d, has yet to catch up with this nation, for the miss deeds, and traitorous acts of the past…for the murder, rape and theft of the lives, and the culture , of a whole civilisation. Or perhaps that is what the coming of the English and others was to Maori, a recompense, for what they had done. As well for the Maori, that the descendants of these same originals they wiped out, treated the Maori, with more consideration than they did the Kelts that were here before them.

Truth, in opposition to all else, Yes ?

Yes there was rape and theft of lives, it is written within the history of many nations, not just Maori, but continues through to this day for some.

The Maori history states that there was different times of migration to this country, it was the migration of the war Maori that brought the devastation to this country of the former inhabitants.

Waitaha history states, that the earlier migrations of Maori were part of the waitaha nation, and that the war Maori were related to these tribes intergrated within Waitaha.

The information and knowledge was held within the women and men of waitaha, who were absorbed into other Maori tribes, weather as slaves for breeding purposes, or as part of the tribe, the knowledge was keep-ed in song, within the trained memory of these men and women and keep within the whare wahanga (house/temple of learning), this information is found in Song of the old tides by Barry Brailford, and also in the waitaha books, Traditions of a Nation and Whispers of a nation.

In my research of waitaha, I found that they once populated the bay of plenty region as well as many other region in NZ, I am related to the tribes in Tauranga region through my mothers side, at my mothers family uru pa(grave yard) some unmarked graves where found, with unidentified skeletons , the way/custom they were buried, in a sitting up position, is consistant with how the customs of the original inhabitants buried there dead, now the question i ask, is why are they buried in my family uru pa(grave yard) they must of been family? you would not of buried some one you just ate next to other family members, or a slave right?

Ancient burial methods

One 19th century report from the fiord area of the South Island spoke of humans remains in a limestone cave that were so old that a stalactite had partially encased the petrified remains.

Skeletons of the ancient people have been observed, frequently, since the earliest colonial time, in burial caves or in a sitting (trussed position) in sand dunes, with artefact’s beside them. The trussed burial is a typical type of pre-Maori burial. Around Kekerengu in the Kaikoura area of the South Island a large number of these have been found, reportedly with a moa egg with each trussed skeleton, a burial method similar to ancient burials in Costa Rica, where round stone balls accompanied the deceased into the afterlife. One such burial was found on Pigeon Mountain near Howick with a pumice ball found with the deceased.

Some bodies found in caves around the Raglan region were encased in Kauri gum, while in both Raglan and the Waima Range there are dry mummified remains in caves. Another ancient custom practiced by the pre-Maori people was to take the bodies to an open air location where the body tissues could eaten by carrion birds, like the black-backed seagull. The remains would stay there for a year or so in the elements until the relatives returned to gather the bones and stack them neatly into a bundle. These would then be carried to and deposited in a burial cave or rock fissure. Others were placed on a carved wooden tray held by a menacing looking statuette figure the purpose of which was scare anyone who wanted to come and disturb the remains. Several of these were located in the Waima Range around Waimamaku, Hokianga District.

Some burials were in stone hewn coffins, such as a number observed in different locations around the Wanganui River region. (see photo Turehu coffins)

Those found in burial caves often had red hair or other light brown and blond hues. Samples of their braided hair, taken from the Waitakere rock shelters, used to be on display at Auckland War Memorial Museum and were the subject of written commentary by Maori anthropologist, Sir Peter Buck. Our earliest maritime explorers frequently saw the, red headed, freckle-faced Maori or “waka blondes” and large pockets of them survived well into the 20th century as people who had never mixed their blood with colonial era European settlers. These days, when ancient, pre-colonial European Caucasoid skeletons are located, they are handed over to the local iwi and no scientific investigation is permitted.

An example of this happened in1995 on a Manutahi farm in Taranaki. The remains of 12 skeletons in a formal pre-European burial ground were unearthed by contractors doing earthworks. The bones were removed and reinterred, reluctantly, at Manutahi Marae where elders said they should have been left where they were. Michael Taylor, a private archaeologist from Wanganui, was called in by the NZ Historic Places Trust to assess the discovery. He said the burial site “definitely pre-dates European settlement due to the style of burial, state of the bones and the presence of what may have been woven flax. Something like this is a significant discovery because it is an unrecorded formal burial site. I’ve been in archaeology for over 20 years and this is the first time I have seen anything like this.”

Since the find, more evidence has filtered through. This tells us that the bones of each skeleton unearthed were in woven bags, but the material was not flax; The burial site was a formally organised location, totally unknown to the local iwi by their own admission. It’s evident that they had no history of burials at this location and in this unique manner; The final burial had occurred in swamp or bog land and was similar to the bog burials of Britain. No photography or forensic analysis of the well preserved skeletal remains and accompanying materials to determine their age, ethnicity or physical anthropology was permitted.

Turehu coffins. These skeletons have recognisable European physiology. They were already very old when found in rugged country, far from any European churchyard and with stone hewn coffins.

A blowup of the picture positively shows a side view of a jaw (mandible) which is not Maori, but European. Maori predominantly have a “rocker jaw” with a continuous downwards curve on the lower border. Further to that, the eye sockets of these people are squarish, the nose openings pyramidal, the faces long and narrow (dolicephalic skull type) and the craniums very round with a high vault.

I am Maori and i have the ancestors of this lands blood within me, am i too blame myself for the actions of some of my ancestors concerning the war Maori?, aee blood was spilt, and there is allot of pain that needs to be healed.

I am more interested in honouring the blood of all my ancestors, even if they did war with each other from time to time, as recounted many times in many Maori myths and legends.

Cannibalism is not solely a Maori companion, but is also found within western ancient mythology, there are certain elements that encourage the behaviour like the shortage of food, after a major natural disaster/event, like when the destroy passed, and set of volcanic eruptions around the world, blocking the light of the sun for long periods, that caused the seasons to change, and crops to die, add that to tidal waves and floods, and you get the picture, would probably happen again.

Truth, in opposition to all else, completely :slight_smile:

Thanks for your honesty brother, now I can read your posts with an open heart.
I too had different sides of my family fighting each other in the past, and have to reconcile that within myself.
I’m not against Maori, I just think its time Maori were honest with themselves, and the rest of us Pakeha, and tell the truth. As should DOC, and the government.
It would end all this land claim rubbish, and bring a real unity, to Maori and Pakeha.
Love and light to you my Maori brother.

Thank you sha’ul, i am sure it could happen.

Love and light bro



likenesses in folk-belief, legend and poetry.
many a year ago colonists from the Scottish Highlands and from other Celtic lands were interested to find a remarkably close resemblance between the Gael and Maori in some of the everyday customs and in tribal beliefs and concepts, as well as in social and political organisation. It was men like Sir Donald Maclean who were the readiest to understand something of the Maori mind and to perceive the motives and the processes of reasoning which prompted actions that to most pakeha people were at first inexplicable.

Governor Sir George Bowen, in his dispatches to the Colonial Office, frequently remarked on the close resemblance between Maori clan customs and those of the Highlands, especially in time of war. The average Maori of that day, had he been transplanted suddenly to a glen in Appin or an isle in the Hebrides, would have been able to adjust himself quickly to the tribal and village life.

In reading Gaelic literature and records of Highland clans I have noted many a family likeness between Gael and Maori—and not alone the Scottish Celt, but the Irish and the Manx—in customs, spiritual belief, and poetic expression.

The twilight of the old gods has not yet gone in the forests and straths of the West of Scotland and in the mountain valleys of the Urewera and the kaingas of Taranaki. The clan and sub-clan systems tended to isolation and to the preservation of old secret faiths, old ways, old songs.

Some great research happening there, Ra… look forward to more being revealed. Laraine

Yes, all very true, but now we know why, and from whom the Maori got these customs and traditions. No wonder they were recognised as being similar to that of the Celts.

Absolutely fascinating thread this one.

I have noticed, whilst reading, that emphasis is being placed on some form of Celtic intervention happening to/with/amongst Maori at some earlier time in history. However, having listened to some of the stories told to me by certain of my own tipuna and at least one Tohunga Atua, (I am Te Ati Awa [Taranaki] by the way) could the possibility not exist that both the early Celts and Maori (by whatever name or names they went by at the time) have been taught by older, perhaps more megalithic cultures (such as the Olmecs for example) concerning their broad social structures - hence similarities? This could account for observable similarities between the two cultures and not necessarily an actual physical interaction between the two. [I am not saying here that interaction between the two cultures was not possible, considering both had quite advanced (for want of a better term) knowledge concerning travel by sea.]

This is merely speculation on my part, and I have no evidence to back what I have suggested up. However, I do put it out there for consideration.


Dating back in History, we see that early Indians had links with the Easter Islands as far back as 3000BC, by the “Old Brahmi” or Indus script being there. In New Zealand, we have a ship-bell dating to around 1000AD, that has Tamil charactors on it.

Now, interestingly, our history states that around 1000AD, a “new wave” of Polynesian peoples arrived in New Zealand (Maoris), speaking the Malayo-Polynesian tongues. Coincidence they arrived the same time as the Tamil Navigators here?

It is more plausible, since this is about the time of the great Sailendra Dynasty, that these Maori peoples speaking related languages to the Indonesians etc. of S. E. Asia, were distributed throughout the Pacific by Tamil traders and Ships, that arrived in New Zealand.

We note many Indic and “Naga” (Eastern India and SE Asian) elements in Maori culture that also support this. As a Southern land, New Zealand would also have been known as one of the Patala Lokas on Earth, where Naga peoples dwelled.

The sacred Maori serpent and water-monster is the Taniwha (pron. ‘Tani-pha’). New Zealand has no serpents, showing it is an imported myth, and these people have some kind of serpent-worship ancestory. We note that In Vedic Dharma, Twashtar is the Creator-God who was father of the Serpent-King Vritra. Perhaps this is who they trace their ancestory from.

The Indonesian Malayo-Polynesian languages’ Indic shades are hence also found in the Polynesian branch, showing a direct link with India – and again supporting the view that maoris came across from these lands during the Sailendra reign, as migrants on Tamil ships.

The Maori word for the Sun is “Ra” – which is very close to ancient Egyptian and the Sanskrit Solar God-King Rama – of renown fame throughout Indonesia and other S. E. Asian lands through Ramayana. His triumph over the Rakshasas of Lanka who ruled S. E. Asian lands and freed them, is well-known. Ramayana mentions Yavadvipa (Java, Indonesia).

This, again, connects Maoris even closer with the Vedic culture of S. E. Asia and suggests the earlier Moriori were also an Indic peoples of this clan. For, how did the Tamils get here at the same time as Maori otherwise? New Zealand hence, must have been known.

The Maori term for “God” or deity is “Atua” – close to the Vedic “Aditya” – meaning Luminary or Sun-God. It is also cognate to Deva or God in the Rig Veda, showing such Vedic ties, also.

In dress and architecture, the Maori resemble the Naga peoples of Eastern India and S. E. Asia and those of the Americas – hence forming one of the many Naga peoples. We note of the Nahuatl language in the Americas and the ancient King Nahush of ancient India – who became demonic and was cursed to become a Naga (serpent) by the Sage Agastya (who is associated with teaching in Southern India, Sri Lanka and S. E Asia).

The Maori also share the S. Indian flood tales, associated with Agastya. According to Bhagavata – Manu Satyavrata was a Dravida (S.Indian) King that sailed into Himalayas after the last flood, along with the Rishis. Dravida lands include Gujerat and Tamil Nadu – where ancient Kingdoms, some 7000 years old have recently been found under the waters.

The Maori tale states Maui (counterpart of Manu) pulled New Zealand out of the sea in the form of a Fish – relating to the Vedic tale of Manu and the fish, Matsya, who saved him. Maori, hence, also trace back to Manu Satyavrata – linking them, once again to Vedic mythology and Asia.

The Supreme of Maori society was known as “Ariki”, which meant Chief, Leader or Priest. It can hence be related to the term for Vedic Kshatriyas (warriors) and Brahmins (priests) – ‘Arya’ or Aryan, which denoted a noble – a common term used to denote the great Vedic peoples.

Manu in Maori means Bird, which gives more of a clue to who maui was.

Legends of Maui Tikitiki-a-Taranga


This man the Bird-of-the-Sun was of a certain tribe, who were men (like our selves) who had a home on the mountain called Hiku-rangi (tail of heaven). Great was the evil of this world in those days, but the moth or the moss of damp cold (mildew or rust) could not get at the place where this man lived and Totoka (congeal) was the name of his house, but his appearance was more like that of a god than the multitudes of men of this world, and the lightning of the heaven flashed in or about his house with bright light, and evil or mishap never came on or near to the house, and hence these words in respect to this house:

Fly, fly the Awa-iti (little rill)
And will, fly The-bird-of-the-Sun
And clear with light
To the lower part of Heaven

He the Bird of the sun was a comely person, and nobler looking than the men of this world, and his servants were named Uenga-o-te-rangi (steadfast of heaven) and this person lived with the Bird of the sun at the same home, and they were each of the male sex, but each were sacred, nor did they even have wives, and Uenga-o-te-rangi had the power or knew how to fly like a bird, as also did Tu-waka (man of the medium) and Tama-roro (son of the brain) was a man possessing the same power, as also Maru (authority) had the same knowledge of flying like a bird, each of them had the knowledge and power to fly in the open space of the sky, nor was this power or knowledge limited to the act of walking on the earth. Rehua (split) had the power also to fly like a bird, and was equal in all the knowledge which those above given possessed. Rehua was a good man, of mild temper, and kind and attentive to the people, and fed the orphans, and attended to, and guarded the poor. He lived at a place called Tupu-o-te-rangi (growth of heaven) which was on the ancient hills of heaven, and not unlike Hiku-rangi (tail of heaven) and was as good in appearance, and like it in not having any evil there, nor was there any moths or mildew there.

Hi Lance, its possible :slight_smile:

There is a Definite Megalithic Track across the Old World from the Atlantic to the Pacific

This Track passes from Japan over Micronesia and — Polynesia to the American Coast

(8) Thereafter the megalithic route across the Pacific is broken and incontinuous. Not till Samoa is reached, away to the south-east, do we pick it up again, for between lay the coral groups of the Marshalls and the Gilberts, the islands of which have not the permanence of volcanic structure, but are the work of the coral insect, at the mercy of storm and billow. The Fale-o-le-fee, or House of the Fairy, behind Apia, is an ellipse of giant stone columns, no mean rival of our Stonehenge. In the Tongan group, to the south of Samoa, we have again the size and the permanency of ancient land, and here we have the gigantic truncated pyramids which are called the tombs of the Tui-Tongas, and the colossal trilithon or gateway composed of three giant stones. It is useless seeking for such ancient structures in the low coral groups like the Paumotas and the Austral Archipelago.

(9) The track is again resumed away to the east in Huahine, one of the Society group, where a dolmen or colossal stone altar exists, and in Tahiti a gigantic truncated pyramid. To the north-west, in Hawaii, are the huge temples of Waikiki and Punepa, whilst to the south and south-east we have the minute Rapa, Pitcairn, and Easter Islands, lying in somewhat the same latitude, 27 to 28 south of the Equator, the two page 5former separated by more than a thousand miles of ocean, the two latter by some fifteen hundred miles; and in each of them there are unmortared stone monuments. To complete the megalithic story of the Pacific, we have two specimens of this ancient type of stone structure in the North Island of New Zealand, one a miniature Stonehenge, with huge blocks standing six or seven feet above the ground, at Kerikeri, in the Bay of Islands, and another near Ateamuri, to the north of Taupo, consisting of fifty great stones set erect in the earth.

Clear Evidence of a Fair Race having been Absorbed
by the Polynesians

(12) But it is in Polynesia proper that most evidences of a primeval fair race have been gathered. Taken as a whole the islanders of this region have a singularly European appearance. What struck all the early voyagers was the fine faces and regular features of most of the islanders, and some of them broke into raptures over the beauty of the women and the stalwart grace of the men. They constitute one of the tallest races in the world. Their hair is generally abundant, and generally wavy, never kinky, like the hair of the negroids, and never rank and coarse, like that of the mongoloids and they can unlike these two divisions of page 32mankind, have, if they wish, plenty of hair on the face. The colour of it is generally dark, and amongst many of them a certain proportion of the children have brown hair, which changes into black only at full maturity. The complexion is, as a rule, brown, but it is very often olive, and no darker than that of the Southern Italians; and colour is as much a matter of climate and food as of race. Dr. Hamy, the French anthropologist, finds from new measurements that “in the east, north, and south they present a long-headedness very pronounced.” Other observers incline to place them amongst the medium-headed men, neither very round nor very long. But the skulls that the Americans took out of the burial platforms of Easter Island are in appearance decidedly long.

(13) There are even cases of a cross with a blonde Caucasian race amongst the Maoris, and especially amongst the Ureweras, who have seen little of Europeans till lately; the urukehu, or red-headed, families and individuals are not infrequent, and the red-head is generally accepted as an indication of a cross between a blonde and brunette race, whilst it is acknowledged that this tribe, not long after arriving in the Matatua canoe, passed inland to the highlands round Lake Waikaremoana, and, struggling with the inhabitants of the mountain and forest land, ultimately amalgamated with them. In that other long-isolated district, the King Country, near the harbour of Kawhia, there are many of these rufous people, and, at the same time, the tribes there speak of their ancestors, the immigrants of the Tainui canoe, amalgamating with the aboriginals, the Ngatimokotorea. And they say that in the fore part of the Tainui a fairy woman called Te Peri had command. The aboriginals of the Ureweras are called by them the Toi; and Mr. Elsdon Best quotes a Maori description of this primitive people as peaceful and good, a contrast to the restless warriors that had come in amongst them from Polynesia.

The Fairy Peoples of Maori Legend are all European-
like, and in all Countries Fairies are the Defeated

(14) A significant substitution by the Ureweras, when the urukehu are mentioned, is the word Turehu, which is used by the Maoris as almost interchangeable with Patupaiarehe in the sense of a fairy or beneficent supernatural being. The Turehu are also represented as an aboriginal people absorbed by the Polynesian immigrants forty generations, or about a thousand years, ago. They had come, according to White’s “Ancient History of the Maori,” “from the other side of the ocean,” and conquered the Tutu-mai-ao, who had before them conquered the Kui, the people that got the land from Maui, when he fished it out of the sea.