'When guys find out I’m a virgin'

The article below shares the thoughts and challenges of a 26 year old virgin. Thoughts concerning the value of True Love, commitment, and an Ideal that has been much degraded in present culture. While certainly not perfect, this young woman holds a strength, an independence, a True ‘feminism’ not rooted in hatred of the opposite sex, co-dependency, or dysfunction. She deserves an equally good and strong man, though they are sadly as rare, perhaps more so, than this particular lovely young lady.

But the reason I’m sharing is not simply for her story alone. What is most promising and positive is that this story seems to be trending all over the internet, links to it being shared all over the place. And… the story is on Salon, a chic, metropolitan, and popular entertainment site for the 20 and 30 something’s. Evidently, it has stuck a chord with many in this demographic, with the majority of these folks sympathizing with the message. (Just read the comments to get a sample.)

Perhaps this is one outlier of a potential pendulum shift in the culture. People FEEL a lack of balance, an emptiness all around, whether or not they can see all the causes or verbalize it.

All it takes is a small amount of healthy examples to remind people of the best things in life, and eventually those watching will be touched to their core… awakening who they really were all along, what they have lost, and what they need to do to get their hearts and health back…


Problem with this approach is that many people end up in relationships which then have no sexual compatibility and this leads to a lot of problems. I think there's a nice middle point between this and the total debauchery that we commonly see nowadays. Anyway interesting article and more importantly your thoughts about it which are always very much appreciated ;)

One must ask, what are the ‘problems’ caused for those who wait on sex until committed in life compared to those searching for sexual compatibility before committing in life? Statistically, which are the more healthy and integrated (and last) in their relationships today? I’d venture to say the answer is self evident…

There are better arguments in Gwineva, but since this is first posted in the Kolbrin Group, I will ask you your thoughts of the numerous examples, passages, and sayings that the Kolbrin has to say on sex, love, and marriage; why you think it says so, and if after reading these things you will say that sexual compatibility is the problem…

Try this for one…

“A woman reserves herself for her husband or she does not, according to her marriage criterion. A woman reserved for marriage is one unlikely to be unfaithful; a woman easily come by before marriage is no less attainable afterwards, for if she says love is the criterion, then she measures by something unstandardised, which may figuratively vary from one inch to a mile. A man declaring his love may have seduction in mind or a lifetime of protective devotion, the marriage proposal determines the difference and establishes the intent.” – The Kolbrin, Book of Creation, Chapter 7

Now, it should not be inferred from the above that marriage is the ‘absolute’ criterion for sex; simply that it is the general rule, as most people, including newlyweds, have barely the slightest conception of True Love.

Nevertheless, there are those that commit themselves to the ‘one’ they know their heart belongs to. These are a rarer sort that have an advanced awareness of Love. This is perhaps of the purest sort, owing to the awareness of their other half in Love and their Destiny with their mate.

But besides this, romantic love is the master of sexuality, certainly not the reverse! For how could two people so committed, caring and entwined not have a sexual compatibility? These days of sexual frivolity is the cause of impotence and Viagra (and this is actually caused by a sexual ‘incompatibility’), while in the days of lifelong commitment, you’d commonly see a dozen children per couple… not much incompatibility going on there.

The sexual act is the ultimate physical expression of closeness, togetherness, and union. When this is passed around easily, it cheapens the act, even more so for the person you may eventually commit to. That which is unique and dear is priceless, while that which gets passed around here and there is of lesser value, and that which is given indiscriminately is close to worthless. This is a basic law in economics. And it WILL cause problems for you and your chosen partner down the line… simply witness past and present culture for this.

Love and commitment are the constant. Sexual desire appear in youth and retreat in old age. One whose heart is first concerned with ‘sexual compatibility’, will find death and lonesomeness at the eventual failing of libido, but those who have their hearts most concerned with love and commitment will find life even in death, and their sexual act, as it was coveted and prized rather than filthened in the dung heap, was made into a crown adornment, and tool for the strengthening of that connection surviving death.

Couples used to have many children back then but many women died without knowing what am orgasm was. I think not everything is so black and white. ;)

I’m not so sure today as many women know what an orgasm is… :wink: In fact, this is backed up by scientific research on the subject. This has to do mainly with physiology, and to a lesser extent with psychology.

Now, if you are criticizing male dominated culture that led to forcible rape within ancient marriages, I would agree with you.

However, that is a red herring, as forcible rape really has nothing to do with an expression of love… :-\

Nah not at all. I'm just saying that the balance wasn't that perfect back then either. And yeah the female orgasm is a quite controversial subject. But I think we come from an imbalance and have ended up in another imbalance due to that. Humanity has a problem finding healthy middle grounds.

I think marriages as a whole were MUCH healthier overall. Could there have been improvements in equal rights? Sure… but no society is perfect.

I am just recognizing an aspect the ancients were more balanced with on average… and in my first post, my point was that the popularity of this woman’s article may be an outlier for the imbalance we see today.

But you mentioned a balance between debauchery and the Kolbrin’s values… please elaborate… what are the standards?

Well I don't think it hurts people to have sexual experiences before marriage for one. I think it's a cute thing to wait for that special day but then as illustrated in this young girl's essay it ends up being a stressful thing. OF course we can find that noble quest for innocence embedded in her story but then again who assures that the day she actually marries she will totally love the lucky guy for the rest of time? she may very well build up a ton of expectation towards the relationship only to find that then there's something missing. I suggest the opposite for couples, that they stay together for at least five years and that only then they start considering marriage or compromise. And for the love of All, do not have children before that amount of time! Some people make themselves wait so long and then when they finally find someone who they consider "the right one" they just explode and do everything altogether, marry, have children, all within a year or two. And then after five years the ugly realization hits them.

But hey, that’s my take you know, it doesn’t have to be the absolute answer to these things, just the way I see it. :wink:

I think for the author of the article, it was about love that was mentioned as the criterion, not some ritual day for a marriage ceremony. I personally don’t find that ‘cute’ or ‘innocent’. I find it honest and self-aware in that she lets her spirit guide her pelvis rather than the reverse.

Unfortunately, the ‘stress’ she had to deal with was not so much personal repression of sex, but rather that the men she was dating put her in the uncomfortable position of EXPECTING sex, as if it were their right sanctified by our current loose society. Perhaps the ‘stress’ she felt was the peer pressure of others demanding sex before love or commitment, no?

And really, romantic relationships hardly find a beginning without sexual attraction, so who is to be let down? I think your fear of sexual incompatibility to be something exceedingly rare for those who work to develop love, attraction, and commitment. And even in the slightest chance the couple finds after committing that sex isn’t enjoyable, the powerful love developed during an extended courtship and commitment would be strong enough to withstand some amount of impotence. Surely, there are not a plague of 80 year old seniors leaving each other because they are impotent or no longer enjoy sex?..

As for your comments on extended courtships, and waiting on children, couldn’t agree more… :wink:

Yeah but extended courtship without any sex , that's a trial that few could overcome, after all we're wired to be sexual, some people are also more sexual than others. Of course one should work on oneself to overcome all these animal impulses but to that extent? I find it a too severe thing to ask. I think that the problem with relationships nowadays is not necessarily that people have sex before marriage but that people in general are just too ignorant and materialistic. A balanced person can have sex before marriage and still not mess things up because they know what they're looking for and they're looking for the right thing. I don't know bro, that's just my take as I said but I welcome other view points such as yours.

Anyway sexuality nowadays is too excacerbated and the media has much to do with this. The youth is being taught materialism and excacerbated sexuality and I don’t like what this combination is producing so far.

Right, I don’t like it either, and I find it inspiring when people, like the woman in this article, can overcome all the brainwashing and propaganda the media and society throws at them…

As for marriage, I don’t think it is the necessary criterion, but it is a good standard if one is unsure of themselves or the other. New couples have so much communication and personality issues… sex really intensifies and multiplies those difficulties. It enhances all aspects of the relationship, and if the relationship is full of dysfunction or confusion, it enhances that dysfunction and confusion. This is the main reason for the sexual revolution being the prime catalyst for the destruction of marriages, relationships, and single parents today. (And keep in mind, the sexual revolution of the 60’s was not, by and large, some constant, debauched orgy, it was about ‘free love’, or sex without the commitment of marriage.)

And yes, I do agree that it can be hard to wait. But if you fell in love with a girl who wouldn’t give it up until you committed yourself to her, would you leave for lack of sex until you were ready for commitment? Are we such animals that we couldn’t even stay with someone we loved long enough to overcome a chastity commitment?

Much of what the Kolbrin is about is this dichotomy between our animal selves and our god selves.

Perhaps it is too much to ask most people to truly be on Earth the gods they are inside…

Maybe we shouldn’t expect too much from this ‘animal’ side of ourselves… and just maybe, we don’t… and people wonder why civilizations keep collapsing…

She doesn't fall for the media indoctrination but she falls for her religious indoctrination. A person who is truly a master of themselves doesn't fall for any. One crucial premise of the Kolbrin Is balance above all. People are not denied the pleasures of the earthly world but they need to keep their mastery over these things instead of becoming their slaves. I think trying to avoid sex in this manner is simply being scared of one's own incapacity to be in control of the impulses thus needing some external dogma to keep oneself from falling victim of them

If she were truly under the spell of religious indoctrination, her expectation would’ve been to wait for marriage. But that is not what she claims to want. Perhaps you missed that she repeatedly stated that she need only be in love with commitment.

As for your general claims to the dangers of indoctrination, I would challenge you to point me to the person who is not indoctrinated with one philosophy or set of values or another. Those who claim to not be indoctrinated with any belief or philosophy or set of values are generally thought of to be nihilists or atheists. But even nihilists and atheists have a “belief” or “doctrine” of materialism or nothingness.

No, the question is not whether people should not be indoctrinated, as this is another red herring, a non sequitur, an impossibility; rather, the question is whether or not the doctrine or philosophy that a person takes on for their lives’ is a healthy and balanced one.

And so far, you have shown no evidence that choosing to wait for sex until a point of commitment and love is an unhealthy (or even unbalanced) doctrine or philosophy. As a matter of fact, this waiting for love and commitment before sex is what the Kolbrin teaches is what is the balanced and healthy choice. If you don’t agree with these particular values within the Kolbrin, that is fine, but I would also challenge you to directly counter the Kolbrin’s arguments. What logic or point of common sense is the Kolbrin missing here?

There is truly a massive amount of literature demonstrating that those who wait to have sex until marriage live longer, more balanced, and healthy lives. Statistically speaking, these people also tend to show an extremely low rate of divorce and broken homes, with children ending up more affluent and better adjusted in their lives. Now, this is simply the objective, scientific view of the situation, which unsurprisingly accords with the long standing traditional view.

Being only moderately dominated by the urge for casual sex is not really balanced at all; it is like saying that it is more balanced to lose control of yourself only some of the time. And really, if you were a true Master of Life, you are in control of yourself all of the time.

Yeah but expecting everyone to become masters of life is exagerated. The few may strive for that kind of commitment with their own selves and others, but for the majority the expectations have to be gradually increased but starting from a more accesible point. If you ask your average person nowadays for this kind of abstinence they may try it only to fail and get frustrated and maybe end up worse than before. I think there's a good middle way which is to not fall for the absolute debauchery that's being promoted nowadays, look for a fitting partner before even thinking about getting intimate, but then allowing people to be intimate, experiencing how being together feels like and if things endure then gradually start making plans to get more serious.

I also think that there are other factors at play which have hindered relationships and not only not waiting for sex until marriage. You can’t just base your entire premise of why relationships fail so much nowadays in that particular phenomenon when society has been altered so drastically in a myriad of ways.

Also love and affection is often developed with the passing of many years, and sex is precisely the element that keeps people together for that time until things start fitting together and then something is developed which transcends sex. Probably this mechanism has been developed by a higher intelligence precisely for that purpose. I think that asking people to wait until they develop those feelings before having sex is wasting a very good mechanism that is meant to facilitate precisely that.

So in short, I personally do not agree with the premise of waiting until marriage or until a very deep and definitive sense of love and affection is developed in order to engage in sexual intimacy, however I do think it’s positive that people get to know each other before engaging in sex if they really want their relationships to become meaningful and lasting. The casual sex thing obviously rarely leads to anything worthwhile and it’s basically just an hedonistic pursuit which reflects the idiosyncracy of the times. The excacerbation of sex can only lead to the dulling of the mental faculties, but nowadays with so much imagery bombardment it is hard to escape, especially for the impressionable youth; and the animal part of man is highly aroused leading to all sorts of catastrophes.

Yes, I do think there are other factors involved leading to the breakdown of marriages, families, and generally wrecked lives. But I do think it is clear that the prime factor that leads to divorce and broken homes stems from the ideology of “free love”, which was popularized in the 1960’s, promoting casual sex outside of marriage either moderately or chronically. This type of philosophy results in many unexpected consequences, some of which I have named above, but also promotes the unconscious ‘selfishness’ of pleasure over the ‘selflessness’ of love and commitment for the other. It leads to a throwaway society in which the dominant factor of all relationships, not only romantic ones, is how much the other person can serve or pleasure me. This philosophy makes it convenient to not work through the hardships in relationships, throwing away their partners and families, even to the point of destroying their children’s lives.

This type of mentality is unthinkable in traditional society, from ancient times, to more ethnic regions in the world today, to even the oldest generation still living today in our first world societies.

Is it really such a hard stretch and such an impossible expectation to look at our parents and grandparents that were raised before the 1960’s, to expect the same of ourselves in terms of love, family, and commitment?

While it is certainly better to only have two different sexual partners a year rather than ten, this ultimately becomes a losing battle, as morals and standards are constantly eroded, and those who wish to heal society must constantly retreat before the worst. It is rather a defensive, weak position rather than an offensive, clearheaded one.

This is not to say that people should be judged over harshly, or damned to hell in the manner some people try to fight this battle. Every individual is a specific case, and should be treated with kindness and compassion and empathy. I think when dealing with people one-on-one on a personal level this should be kept in mind, and their own specific case should be treated accordingly.

However, when we speak of general standards and what is best, I think we should promote the highest and the best standards, and give the best logical reasons why. This is certainly better than saying “because God said so”. When people are shown the logical, healthy, and life-affirming effects of a good and moral life; when they truly understand the reasons for the standards and can see healthy examples of it in others, it will only make sense for them to follow suit and heal their own lives.

You also must take into account that we live in times where many people simply do not want to have families. This is also due to the societal and technological we have undergone, particularly in the richer western nations. Those individuals who are not looking to have families anymore are instead focusing their lives on finding as much personal pleasure as possible and sex factors into that heavily as in this society sex is the most valued pleasure to be attained. I think however this is not new to our society and has happened repeatedly through the different historical eras.

Families are not for everyone; nothing wrong with that. But people need to be honest with themselves about their desires, being consistent and aware in thought and action.

The problem is that many people are trying to serve two masters. You can’t simultaneously want a committed life partner (which most people actually do want), without making a selfless commitment to your partner. Saying, “Hey, I want the pleasure and comfort you’re going to give me”, while then failing to give that back to the other in the fullest extent desired for oneself. These half measures, dipping one’s toes in the waters, are a huge cause of deeper, more destructive problems, and usually ends in a failed relationship.

If you want a loving, lasting relationship, one needs to view sex as what it will bring to their partner and the relationship first, personal pleasure should be the last consideration. In viewing one’s own partner and relationship maturity level honestly and objectively (this is not at all easy for most, which is why the commitment of marriage is a healthier general rule), if it is seen that sex could bring any resentment, strangeness, confusion, or hurt to the picture, sex should be ruled out as an option until the maturity of the relationship is past the possibility of negative consequences occurring.

“I think however this is not new to our society and has happened repeatedly through the different historical eras.”

You will recall the fate of these past societies at preciecely the times of these levels of decadence described in the Kolbrin, the Bible, and other historical documents… :-\

… Which is why I advocate for a stronger medicine …

Read through these posts a few days ago...then I read in another one of my books that we do not, and indeed cannot complete our cycle of physical lifetimes until we have left our accumulated wisdom on the Earth plane. I have a feeling that just might have a ring of truth to it, and it caused me to rethink how I just observe a lot of the time, and don't post my thoughts very much anymore. Before I go on, know that I respect the wisdom within the Kolbrin, yet I believe it's been a victim of a few of mans laws being added, and that they were done with good intention. That being said...maybe I'm being selfish, but I see there are probably more personal reasons behind all that has already been said above me.

Being a perfectionist she’s set her path on an extremely difficult lesson in life. It’s going to be a very rough ride, and I prefer my series of little lessons. It’s my belief that she chose this path before hand for a reason…she needs to learn something…what that really is we’ll never know, unless she writes a highly publicized article many years from now.

When and if she ever gets to the height of the perfectionism she seeks, the first lesson will be the most difficult. If I could talk to her personally I’d tell her it’s ok that her nails weren’t done perfectly that day, that he didn’t shower a few hours before the moment, that that the sheets were wrinkled. That it’s suppose to hurt like hell, (that’s a lesson in itself), and it may have been made that way so you’re more cautious about having “relations”, and part of giving yourself completely to another person. Giving isn’t about a good feeling. It’s a sacrifice of part of yourself, and Yes it hurts. That men aren’t perfect and she’ll never be either no matter how hard she tries. That she’ll never make her mother completely happy, and that by now she probably has her mother wondering why she doesn’t have a grandchild by this daughter.

But if I’m right, the Mother, (or father), brags about what a great career her daughter has, and that everything her daughter does she does at the height of her mothers expectations. The mother, (or father), probably brags about the daughters business accomplishments, wealth and income, and rarely mentions the lack of any real men companions or children in the daughter life. I can hear the travels the daughter has made abroad, and how she’s advanced her earning potential. This allows the daughter to feel like she’s accomplished all her mother wanted…yet there’s that empty place…That one act of bravery faith and trust in another human being she’s not made. The one thing that will truly set her on a path for many more lessons.

She’s at a stuck place. Like a holding tank. It may be that she’ll have to repeat this whole cycle. How do we know she’s just not an old soul who’s already learned that sex isn’t the answer, and that she’s a better, more learned advanced person? Nothing she’s said leads me to believe that. She’s using a law made by man to justify her own fear.

I don’t see her article as one about faith or doing the right thing at all, but it’s about fear The fear of failing at something, the fear of giving the most precious thing she holds dear to the wrong person, the fear of failure and of emotional pain. Exactly what she thinks her mother fears, the same fear that’s been implanted inside her at the end of a party when she was just a child. If I’m right probably many more times that we’re not made aware of.

I’d love to hear about someone who gave herself and learned from her mistakes not to give herself so freely again. That would be something to celebrate. But just like very Virgin Mary story…the expectations in this article leave many to feel like they’re bad. You’re not bad! No one has failed…there’s no failing this class. Only growth and learning.

No, I don’t believe we should just have relations with whoever. No way! It’s so very much more. But don’t do it for the wrong reasons, or not get too close for the wrong reasons either. You’re here to learn and grow. I post these things not only from personal experience, but from observation. Go ahead Len you can now chop off my head. :slight_smile: it’s ok.

I’m glad you commented, Diane, and have missed your general input over the past months…

You know, I really can’t disagree with too much of what you said. Fear does seem to be a motivation of what she’s written. But I would also note that some of that fear is healthy and justified (not all). She explains earlier on in the article that a few guys she dated in college could have been her first, but ended up betraying her in either blowing here off completely or revealing they had other girlfriends quite after the fact.

She also sees guys not willing to wait for her. And sadly, that is often the case these days. From her own experience she sees guys walk away shortly after they realize they have to wait to get in her pants. If sex were the deciding factor whether a partner stayed with you or not, would you give in to it? I wouldn’t….

God’s law, man’s law, either way… we see too clearly how most people would rather use us to their own advantage rather than care about or love us for who we were. Why take some chance on that, knowing through action that the person you’re dating would leave you if you don’t give it up to them? This morality was instilled precisely because people tend to use each other, and that following these rules tends to foster commitment and love.

You know, guys often privately talk about how there are women for pleasure and women for wives. Generally, a guy has it often made up in his mind which is which depending upon how easily he can get her pants off… Most women may find this disgusting, but sadly, they tend to facilitate their own degradation in this manner these days… Honestly, I can’t blame this girl for not wanting to go through that mistake…

It might teach her more to give in… just as much as it would teach someone more to get thrown into a fire rather than just telling them it’s going to burn. But that’s life, sometimes we need to fail and hurt to really learn. Other times, it is enough to be told the fire will burn, and even other times it is enough to get close enough to the fire that it almost burns you to learn. People can learn the easy way, or the hard way. I myself tend to try to help people learn the easy way… but I’ll happily support them if they are determined to learn the hard way…

I also would say that the current rampant hedonism and materialism that we see is a natural result of the advancement and prosperity attained in the West. If there's one thing that the Kolbrin makes emphasis upon is how societies get spoiled when too much comfort is reached. I guess this is a great validation of the Kolbrin's philosophy as it has happened just as it said it would.

Right now many people don’t see much Sense into going into a committed relationship and make families when they can pursue personal enjoyment without any added responsibilities. People still have a biological craving for certain things but at the same time the artificial circumstances of society lead them to not take it too seriously.

I assure you that if suddenly a worldwide catastrophe hit us and human population would dwindle and exist in a more challenging situation then people would go back to valuing the traditional customs pretty quickly.